Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie

[BenMcLean]

@clyde said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

So, there have to be natural cars in the world, because without them there couldn't be artificial cars?

Think about what I said. Think real hard. Is that what I said? Is that even anything remotely similar to what I said? Is that really even analogous to what I said?

Obviously not.

Artificial metal constructions like cars are made out of naturally occurring metals. If there were no naturally occurring metals, there could be no artificial metal constructions.

Locke's labor theory of property defines the right of physical private property as a natural right, and it only applies to physical goods. I said that copyright is not a natural right: it is artificially created by a social contract. The purpose of copyright isn't to protect authors: it is to promote progress. (meaning the creation of new works) I'll try and support creators where I can to encourage the creation of new works, but I have no respect for the copyrights of companies who aren't creating new works and aren't even re-releasing their old works in a convenient format.

[Clyde]

@benmclean said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Artificial metal constructions like cars are made out of naturally occurring metals. If there were no naturally occurring metals, there could be no artificial metal constructions.

Yes, but that's not analogue to what you said about rights. You stated that artificial rights need prior natural rights, not some other natural resources rights may be derived from, e.g. humans' brains and the practical need to organize their populations. Please demonstrate why artificial rights can't be derived from other natural resources.

Locke's labor theory of property defines the right of physical private property as a natural right, and it only applies to physical goods.

Yes, that's one of the flaws of his 17th century philosophy. Next to proclaim natural laws a priori on the basis of a creator god "giving" the world to humans.

I said that copyright is not a natural right: it is artificially created by a social contract.

So, you're breaking the social contract of your society. By what right? And, like I asked before, why should society respect any of your rights then? Do you want to live in a society where everyone breaks the social contract whenever he or she pleases? (Yes, I'm grazing Kant's categorical imperative here.)

The purpose of copyright isn't to protect authors: it is to promote progress. (meaning the creation of new works) I'll try and support creators where I can to encourage the creation of new works, but I have no respect for the copyrights of companies who aren't creating new works and aren't even re-releasing their old works in a convenient format.

So, you're only ignoring copyrights whose holders are not creating new works? I highly doubt that, because I think most of them do, but if actually so, how do you determine that? Can you give some examples of rom copyright holders that aren't creating new works?

How exactly does (your) convenience matter in the question whether (copy)rights of others should be respected or not? Do others' rights become null and void if they don't cater our convenience? How about your rights when you don't cater others' convenience?

[markwkidd]

So, you're only ignoring copyrights whose holders are not creating new works? I highly doubt that, because I think most of them do, but if actually so, how do you determine that? Can you give some examples of rom copyright holders that aren't creating new works?

How exactly does (your) convenience matter in the question whether (copy)rights of others should be respected or not? Do others' rights become null and void if they don't cater our convenience? How about your rights when you don't cater others' convenience?

I love to see a good copyright discussion! One of the innovations of modern times, we're still seeing what affect it's having on culture.

It seems relevant to mention that one of the two criteria for determining whether something is "Fair Use" in United States law is whether by making a copy of the intellectual property without permission deprives its creator of income.

Regardless of jurisdiction or the historical application of this fair use criterion, a lot of people who emulate feel do believe that it is morally acceptable to make a copy of a protected work if its owners have abandoned it or for other reasons have chosen not to make the copyrighted work commercially available. There are innumerable examples of this, and a whole term "abandonware" to describe it.

Copying abandonware would probably not be fair use in most cases, but I think it's possible to make an argument that it's in the spirit of copyright law.

[dankcushions]

@markwkidd that argument is difficult to make these days. many games that were considered abandonware, and so many of the retro console games are now available officially.

even games once thought to be in impossible license hell like windjammers and system shock 1/2 have been reissued.

retro games are only getting (officially) more available, not less.

[markwkidd]

@dankcushions said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@markwkidd that argument is difficult to make these days. many games that were considered abandonware, and so many of the retro console games are now available officially.

I think that there is a strong argument to be made that the emulation and abandonware scene with its loose attitude towards copyright on old games is exactly why more of these titles are now available again.

If someone believes in the idea that it is morally neutral or even positive to share unavailable software, it's something to celebrate when the software in question comes back into circulation. And if one has that attitude, one should stop sharing specific software once it is available again! :D

[herb_fargus]

@markwkidd said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

And if one has that attitude, one should stop sharing specific software once it is available again

There is also an argument to be said of the excessive perpetuity of copyright where original creators have long since been out of the picture and would never see any monetary gain from a renewed release.

More often than not companies squat on IP after it's been resold after bankruptcy multiple times and it's rare if any creators get any percentage of their creation at all as it's typically absorbed into the IP of a company without retaining any personal rights for creation. Imo as far as US law is concerned 70 years is far too long considering the obsolete mediums of many technologies used, and it's only thanks to the so called pirates that any of this is preserved. Because there's one thing that's for sure, companies won't preserve them.

[markwkidd]

@herb_fargus said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@markwkidd said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

And if one has that attitude, one should stop sharing specific software once it is available again

There is also an argument to be said of the excessive perpetuity of copyright where original creators have long since been out of the picture and would never see any monetary gain from a renewed release.

More often than not companies squat on IP after it's been resold after bankruptcy multiple times and it's rare if any creators get any percentage of their creation at all as it's typically absorbed into the IP of a company without retaining any personal rights for creation. Imo as far as US law is concerned 70 years is far too long considering the obsolete mediums of many technologies used, and it's only thanks to the so called pirates that any of this is preserved. Because there's one thing that's for sure, companies won't preserve them.

Herb I agree 100% with you on this point. In the early days of copyright when terms were shorter copyright was , in my opinion, better balanced to help encourage the creation of new work.

[mediamogul]

@herb_fargus said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Imo as far as US law is concerned 70 years is far too long considering the obsolete mediums of many technologies used

@markwkidd

In the early days of copyright when terms were shorter copyright was , in my opinion, better balanced to help encourage the creation of new work.

Almost no thought goes into US intellectual property protection other than how much money can be made from term extensions. I'm a big proponent of public domain laws and the potential benefits they have to enrich a shared culture in ways we can't immediately imagine. However, I constantly find myself discussing the value of legitimately limited protection with both creators and consumers alike. The creators perspective I at least understand, but when talking about something like the endless extensions Disney is afforded, consumers often seem to have a favorable bias to such companies and will argue that similar entities should be protected in perpetuity for no other reason than sentimentality. The narrow view on this can be frustrating and a smart company can even use this public opinion to sway lawmakers.

One of my hobbies is remastering, restoring and even releasing in a free and limited capacity, films that have never and most likely will never be released in a consumer-ready format for one reason or another. While my efforts and those like me are admittedly illegal, the alternative is that these films will be lost to time and erased from our shared culture forever.

[BenMcLean]

@clyde said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Yes, but that's not analogue to what you said about rights.

Yes it is.

Please demonstrate why artificial rights can't be derived from other natural resources.

Oh, that's because of David Hume's is-ought gap. There is absolutely no way to logically deduce any moral conclusion using only non-moral premises. In order to get any moral conclusion, you will need a moral premise. So natural rights are the only kind of thing which artificial rights could be constructed out of, since anything else would violate this rule.

Next to proclaim natural laws a priori on the basis of a creator god "giving" the world to humans.

That's the only grounds on which I'd be willing to listen to a defense of copyright, since I do believe in God and I would reject any atheist alternative.

So, you're breaking the social contract of your society. By what right?

I think rights are arranged in a hierarchy, with individual natural rights at the top and artificial rights coming along later. What we've gotten in our society is an "intellectual property" regime so extreme that it ends up undermining other rights which are much more basic. (higher in the hierarchy) Specifically, it's putting companies above people to their benefit and our detriment.

I don't respect copyright in the abstract just because a piece of paper or some company says so. I respect creators and try to support good ones where I can. But I don't let silly, stupid "laws" written by lobbyists undermine individual freedom to think, create or experience history.

[markwkidd]

How about we add some Intellivision titles? :)

Open source, Creative Commons, and other permissive licenses:

• Christmas Carol vs. The Ghost of Christmas Presents (Pseudo-PD) -
  http://www.carolvsghost.com/pg_game.html#download-rom
• Space Patrol (CC-BY-NC-ND) - http://spacepatrol.info/
• 4-Tris (GPL) - http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/4-tris/

Modern freeware ROMs:

• Choplifter - http://intellivision.us/intvgames/chop/chop.php
• Stonix - http://www.intellivision.us/intvgames/stonix/stonix.php
• Hotel Bunny - http://sebastianmihai.com/main.php?t=115&n=Intellivision-development-Hotel-Bunny
• Ultimate Pong - http://intellivisionrevolution.com/ultimatepong
• DK Arcade - http://www.carlmuellerjr.com/2016/12/d1k-arcade-rom-download-page-dk-arcade.html?m=1
• Ms. Pac Man - http://www.carlmuellerjr.com/2016/06/ms_22.html?m=1
• Meteors! - http://atariage.com/forums/topic/273509-meteors/
• Stunt Cycle - http://atariage.com/forums/topic/273481-download-stunt-cycle-still-in-development-digital-game-rom-free/
• Princess Lydie - http://atariage.com/forums/topic/264032-new-intellivision-homebrew-princess-lydie/

[BillyH]

That's a cool Mega Drive collection, if I don't notice any problems with the emulator on RetroPie then I'll definitely buy that collection when it goes on a sale again.

[meleu]

http://www.gradualgames.com/2017/12/free-roms.html?m=1

Free NES Homebrews games from Gradual Games!

[SgtJimmyRustles]

Isn't the One Must Fall 2097 declared freeware now?

[Clyde]

@sgtjimmyrustles said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

Isn't the One Must Fall 2097 declared freeware now?

It is, but I think it's for Windows only. I don't know if the open source port (also linked in my link) would run on the Raspberry Pi, though.

[SgtJimmyRustles]

@clyde said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

It is, but I think it's for Windows only. I don't know if the open source port (also linked in my link) would run on the Raspberry Pi, though.

Pretty sure I remember One Must Fall being on DOS.

Edit: Yeah it's MS-Dos, not windows.

[Clyde]

@sgtjimmyrustles You're right, my mistake. But the TO @BenMcLean doesn't include DOSBox games here:

@benmclean said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

I am categorically excluding DOS games because the library of games which DOSBOX supports and which will run just fine through RetroPie is so staggeringly huge that we have no chance to even start on it. So when it comes to DOS games, I am only including DOS games which have modern source ports that run on RetroPie.

edit: So, the question remains if OMF's open source port runs on Retropie.

[Fruitybit]

@markwkidd Very good list, I've been looking for a decent version of Pong for so long! However, when I download it, it has no suffix or file type. I tried calling it .int and .bin, and dropped all three into the pi but none will work with jzintv. I want to put Freeintv on but don't have the wherewithall to achieve that yet!

Hmm, I tried DK arcade and can’t get that working either, all my other Intellivision roms work fine, all bios sums are correct. Are these working on the pi for anyone else?

[Clyde]

Nothing for the list, but King of Fighters 2002 is available for free on gog.com until tomorrow. See here how to extract the bios and rom from the gog installer.

https://www.gog.com/game/the_king_of_fighters_2002

[markwkidd]

@fruitybit said in Where to (legally) acquire content to play on RetroPie:

@markwkidd Very good list, I've been looking for a decent version of Pong for so long! However, when I download it, it has no suffix or file type. I tried calling it .int and .bin, and dropped all three into the pi but none will work with jzintv. I want to put Freeintv on but don't have the wherewithall to achieve that yet!

Hmm, I tried DK arcade and can’t get that working either, all my other Intellivision roms work fine, all bios sums are correct. Are these working on the pi for anyone else?

FreeIntv is being considered for inclusion in RetroPie-Setup in the Experimental category. Hopefully the next update will streamline things for you.

[Fruitybit]

@markwkidd I saw this on github, good news:) as for Pong- This thread 1st April, a lot seem to think it’s a joke. Seeing as it hasn’t got a file type I fear Freeintv won’t make any difference!
Edit: at the end of that thread it mentions using .rom file type. The only one I hadn’t tried. Will update later!
Edit: you can hear “D’oh” echoing off my walls