So whats the opinion on Twin Galaxies here?

Clyde

I had to look up Billy Mitchel and learned that he is "this long-haired guy who is treated like a celebrity in many arcade videos". ;) So no, I don't care, but I respect that others do.

As a matter of principle, I ask for evidence if someone is accused of something.

herb_fargus

@clyde the evidence is pretty thorough:

http://donkeykongforum.com/index.php?topic=2055.0

Sano

I watched a few time "King of Kong : a fistful of quarters"
I don't know if this documentary has a strong bias induced by montage, or if the characters are really as depicted, but it's pleasant to watch and kind of instructive.

Anyway, I don't have an interest in official high scores/ranking, but I like watching "superplays" from time to time, in order to see where infinite free time and dedication (which I both don't have) can lead on a pretty trivial subject like videogames :)

Clyde

@herb_fargus Thanks for the link. It's a very detailed analysis of some video footage I only skimmed over. I didn't see any mention of the source of the footage, did I miss it? I'm asking because a video from Mitchel's rival Dwayne Richard seems to be circulating whose authenticity doesn't seem do be clear and was dismissed by Mitchel (edit: changed link from YouTube video to Kotaku article).

If the analysis wasn't performed on the original footage sent to Twin Galaxies, it hasn't much evidential value.

(I still don't care about online highscores, but such cases engage my general interest.)

RedBatman

I'm just amazed that people would go so far for a highscore. Now granted I prefer MAME/FBA since real hardware is too expensive but at times I think its okay for MAME to be used official as long as there is regulation.

edmaul69

@redbatman yes there is mame regulation. There is a seperate high score section for mame and his score needed to be submitted there not in the legit pcb section

SgtJimmyRustles

@edmaul69

How can you even verify Mame scores since essentially you COULD cheat in the games using Mame?
Would you just record the whole session?

dankcushions

thing is with mame, you can record, splice and playback gameplay. eg in donkey kong you could record your inputs, and then playback that gameplay until the RNG gives you the maximum barrel bonus. you can also splice together your best performances of each stage. etc etc.

so i would say the only way to get a verifiable score would be to record the player's hand at the controls, and the gameplay in the same shot. even then, you could comp the two shots together. it's a minefield...

SgtJimmyRustles

@dankcushions said in So whats the opinion on Twin Galaxies here?:

thing is with mame, you can record, splice and playback gameplay. eg in donkey kong you could record your inputs, and then playback that gameplay until the RNG gives you the maximum barrel bonus. you can also splice together your best performances of each stage. etc etc.
so i would say the only way to get a verifiable score would be to record the player's hand at the controls, and the gameplay in the same shot. even then, you could comp the two shots together. it's a minefield...

Yeah, by that argument, unless you're being filmed completely during that time by someone who's verifiable, then Mame scores really shouldn't count.

Clyde

@sgtjimmyrustles said in So whats the opinion on Twin Galaxies here?:

Yeah, by that argument, unless you're being filmed completely during that time by someone who's verifiable, then Mame scores really shouldn't count.

Well, people also argue the validity of different and possibly hacked PCBs, so even those aren't unimpeachable.

caver01

I am just glad Twin Galaxies and other forums exist for this. There has to be some standard by which these achievements are judged and compared and I think it is fantastic that enough enthusiasts exist to moderate these claims. Otherwise, everything is just anecdote vs. suspicion.

Regarding the standards, I was always surprised that anything beyond officially sanctioned and controlled live competitions was acceptable for submitting a high score. The rules for filming a performance are extremely detailed, as they would have to be in order to "prove" the system was legitimate and the performance was real. I guess it would have been easier to host such events during the arcade heyday of the 1980s, so I guess video proof is a modern compromise.

If nothing else, TG and others is a great reference for my own gaming. For example, during MAME ROW for Time Pilot we found out that our high scores were actually pretty admirable considering the best in the world.

Z1mzum

I'm no fan of Twin Galaxies, They removed my own high scores back in the late 90's for apparently cheating. Legit high scores I've earned twice due to being deleted once only to be deleted again. I don't take anything as legitimate with those guys, they where such an "inside" bunch back in the late 90's.

RedBatman

@z1mzum What games did you get high scores in?

Z1mzum

@redbatman Xain'd Sleena and Mr Do, To be honest I'm not that salty about it though I can't take it seriously though I'm sure the majority are legit gamers.

RedBatman

@z1mzum Well I imagine this won't end well for Twin Galaxies though.

RedBatman

For those who want an In depth analysis. Apollo Legend did this.

mediamogul

@redbatman

I was already convinced that he's been using MAME, which, to me personally, just means that his scores need to be posted on another leader board. However, seeing those audio waveform gaps in his videos and the awkwardly staged board swap have me believing this guy's a complete sham. At this point, even if the guy repents, his scores will never be taken seriously again.

RedBatman

@mediamogul A shame really. I thought he was a decent guy.

fabio78

@redbatman “I thought he was a decent guy.“
Really!?!? He’s always, since his first interviews in the ‘80s, come across as an utter scumbag.

mediamogul

@fabio78

You have to look beyond the beard, beyond the tacky ties, beyond the smug sense of self-importance and only there you'll find... no, wait. Just more scumbag. My bad.