Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls

[janderclander14]

I'm trying to configure Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls so that games consistenly use the same buttons regardless the emulator in use.

I have a standard "6 button in two rows" arcade layout that I have configured as suggested in the Retropie Wiki:

Y X L
B A R

Then, in FBAlpha, I see that games using 4 buttons or less use a SNES-like mapping, as follows:
3 4
1 2

And 6-button fighting games, are correctly mapped in rows of three buttons:
4 5 6
1 2 3

However, I was not able to replicate this behavior in Mame2003-plus. With the default "gamepad"-type controller (or the 6 or 8 button type), all games (ranging from 1 to 6 buttons) use the 6-button layout:
4 5 6
1 2 3

Which means that, for example, neogeo 4 button games are mapped as
4
1 2 3

Whereas in FBAlpha they are:
3 4
1 2

If I switch the control type in Mame2003-plus to "classic" game pad, I get a correct mapping for games using 4 buttons or less:
3 4
1 2

But then, 6-button figting games are as follows:
3 4 5
1 2 6

Instead of the
4 5 6
1 2 3

used in FBAlpha.

Am I doing something wrong? Can Mame2003-plus adapt the layout according to the number of game buttons as FBAlpha seems capable of?

[grant2258]

I not sure if fba is switching layouts depending on the number of buttons. But in plus and real mame you get what you set per button. I personally use an 8 button layout.

here is the mappings for mame.

https://github.com/grant2258/mame2003-plus-libretro/tree/master/metadata/wipcontrols

to answer you question yes mame could adapt but i dont want to use my arcade panel like gamepad. I do agree the rows on the buttons but i just remap them to

456
1234

for myself so i have 4 in a row for my neogeo

[markwkidd]

Classic layout in mame2003-plus should be identical to FBA Classic layout.

Gamepad layout in mame2003-plus should be identical to FBA Modern layout.

If they aren't I'm interested in any specific examples.

[grant2258]

are you saying fba iis changing maps itself even when using an arcade panel thats not good imho but it user choice at the end of the day.

the simple answer is if you want you arcade panel to map like a game pad like you saying fba does basically set it to classic

for the 6 player buttons basically sf2 just pick snes for that. Im surprised fba is forcing mapping like that.

[barbudreadmon]

@grant2258 said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

I not sure if fba is switching layouts depending on the number of buttons

This is actually even more complex than that, i'm using different layout depending on the system, number of button, and also genre of the game. I'm also fine tuning controls for a lot of specific games. The classic/modern device type will also have different impact depending on all those factors. My main objective was to offer the best possible default layouts, whatever the game, as long as the controller was mapped in a way i can expect, which is basically :
Y X L
B A R
or
(L1) Y X R1 (L1)
(L2) B A R2 (L2)

[grant2258]

ah thats good i though maybe 3 buttons set like a gamepad wouldnt be good for double dragon ect . Im sticking with arcade defaults like mame main line but i think they got sf2 wrong compared to every other game it seems wired the wron way round hehe

[barbudreadmon]

@janderclander14 To answer your question, i don't think it's possible to have 100% of the games with the exact same mapping on both emulator without some override/remapping.

[grant2258]

@barbudreadmon are you doing this remapping in the drivers or romnames ?

[barbudreadmon]

@grant2258 I'm trying to not modify anything in the fbalpha codebase, everything is handled in the libretro port, decision being made by probing all those factors.

[grant2258]

Ill do some modifications so we closer match fba with the rows that should clear most problems just change the rows in the cps input for mame will help users

[janderclander14]

Thanks a lot for your replies. It makes more sense now.
This was the conclusion I reached: FBAlpha adapts the layout according to the type of game/number of buttons/system (and does it right).

After some tests, this is what I got:

Regardless the control setting (either modern or classic), 4 button games (at least the ones I tested) are mapped in FBalpha as follows:
3 4
1 2

In Mame2003-plus, the same 4 button game with "classic" setting results in the same:
3 4
1 2

However, the Mame2003-plus "6 button" setting results in:
1 2 3
4

And the Gamepad setting results in:
1 2
x x 3

Moving to 6-button games, only the "classic" setting in FBAlpha makes sense for a 6-button arcade panel, which results in the correct mapping:
4 5 6
1 2 3

Whereas in Mame2003-plus, the "classic" setting results in the weird layout
3 4 5
1 2 6

Only selecting the "6-button" setting, we get the correct:
4 5 6
1 2 3

So, for 4 or less button games, "classic" FBAlpha matches "classic" Mame2003-plus, whereas for 6 button games, "classic" FBAlpha matches "6-button" Mame2003-plus. (with Retropie's 6 button 2 rows arcade layout).

[grant2258]

i disagree slightly here that below is correct for arcade panel

12
34

this is vaild for gamepads classic is a gamepad layout

try play double dragon or double dragon 2 on this layout it wont work well

we seperate gamepads and arcade controllers

for gampads (gamepad and 6button(snes) are for sf2) and classic is for the rest

for arcade panel
6button is what you want

(8 button panel) gamepad is fba modern suitable for fightsticks or modern controller
8 panel is is alternative mapping for when you use other cores i use this one.

now that all being said im quite happy to make gamepads switch layouts there is no way in hell i want my arcade panel acting like a gamepad I might as well throw it out. Im still open to ideas.

what i would like to say is neogeo is laid out like this.

1 2 3 4 

1 2
3 4

and

123
4

are just as avails as each other,

i do agree on the row switch and i will do this at some point

[barbudreadmon]

@grant2258 said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

i disagree slightly here that below is correct for arcade panel
12
34

this is vaild for gamepads classic is a gamepad layout

Actually, i looked at dozens of original cabinets while working on controls in fba :

• 3-buttons arcade machine generally didn't have their buttons placed on a "straight line", one of the button was more or less offseted from the line formed by the 2 other, sometimes (i would say half of the ones i looked at) clearly forming a triangle
• most 4-buttons arcade machine i looked at had their button placed as a quad.

So, while having a mapping friendly for most case was my concern, it happened to match original cabinet layout in a lot of case.

[grant2258]

  2 
1   3

is the usual setup for an arcade is would agree

fba would traslate to

3 4 x
1 2 x

plus would be

 1 2 3 
 x x x

the more arcade friendly arcade mapping would be

x 2 x
1 x 3

12
34

there is no issue thet the 1234 patter used in fba is good for gamepads

anyway all people have different preferences

i think

1 2 3 

or

x 2 x
1 x 3

is more realistic for me for arcade panels for 3 buttons

the 4 button setup varies in quads or in a row

I am leaving this as is in mame2003 + the user can remap buttons that dont fit there preference. Mame2003 ended up a mess when you tried to force controls on people. The defaults should work for most games as it does in mame mainline.

the use can remap there keys on games if needed im not going to enforce my preferences on them.

[Clyde]

@grant2258 said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

anyway all people have different preferences

x 2 x
1 x 3

Indeed. I tend to map such games to

1 2 3
1 2 3

or in case of Mortal Kombat, which has a single Block button in the middle,

HP BL HK  (High Punch, BLock, High Kick)
LP BL LK  (Low Punch, BLock, Low Kick)

so it won't matter much if I hit the wrong key as long as I hit its correct horizontal position. As a bonus, guests tend to search less often for working keys. ;)

But that's just me, I don't know if I would recommend that as default.

[grant2258]

@Clyde the problem with mk is it has 5 button as far as i can remember i could be wrong.

i think it was like this in the arcade

o   o
  o
o   o

[grant2258]

i personally map my 8 button setup like this.

1 2 3 4
4 5 6

this handles neogeo and 6 buttons out of the wrapper.

however it really shoud be

456
1234

it the other way round so sf2 maps right. Ill make some change so it maps

456
123

without changing drivers else it will end up in tears like it did for mame2003

[Amplifuzz]

I'm having similar issues. I have a 6 button setup, set SNES style. 6 button fighters are mapped correctly, but 3 button games in the upward triangle shape like Altered Beast and Double Dragon are not as I remember them. I checked the manuals and indeed they have punch and kick on the bottom and jump on the top, unlike the Retropie cores. Is there a catch-all setting for that?

[grant2258]

@Amplifuzz nope there isint a catch all. teh 6 button should is 3 in a row for mame+ I personlly think

123

or

 2
1x3

is acceptable

34
12

is not acceptable on an arcade panel though for 3 button games

if you want the triangle youll need to map it that way. I would like to update mame at some point so we can change this unfortunately updates would be needed for this and everyone has a different idea of what is best. but i want to add code to swap the rows at some point. Problem is the controls are in a define that makes a structure instead of a structure thats editable. I might change this one day for more felxablity

The standard mame2003+ is set in the 8 button or 6 button for arcades so you know where every button is

[Clyde]

@grant2258 Maybe a "6 button triangle" preset would be feasable next to "6 button"?

Happy new year to all of you!