Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls

barbudreadmon

@grant2258 I'm trying to not modify anything in the fbalpha codebase, everything is handled in the libretro port, decision being made by probing all those factors.

grant2258

Ill do some modifications so we closer match fba with the rows that should clear most problems just change the rows in the cps input for mame will help users

janderclander14

Thanks a lot for your replies. It makes more sense now.
This was the conclusion I reached: FBAlpha adapts the layout according to the type of game/number of buttons/system (and does it right).

After some tests, this is what I got:

Regardless the control setting (either modern or classic), 4 button games (at least the ones I tested) are mapped in FBalpha as follows:
3 4
1 2

In Mame2003-plus, the same 4 button game with "classic" setting results in the same:
3 4
1 2

However, the Mame2003-plus "6 button" setting results in:
1 2 3
4

And the Gamepad setting results in:
1 2
x x 3

Moving to 6-button games, only the "classic" setting in FBAlpha makes sense for a 6-button arcade panel, which results in the correct mapping:
4 5 6
1 2 3

Whereas in Mame2003-plus, the "classic" setting results in the weird layout
3 4 5
1 2 6

Only selecting the "6-button" setting, we get the correct:
4 5 6
1 2 3

So, for 4 or less button games, "classic" FBAlpha matches "classic" Mame2003-plus, whereas for 6 button games, "classic" FBAlpha matches "6-button" Mame2003-plus. (with Retropie's 6 button 2 rows arcade layout).

grant2258

i disagree slightly here that below is correct for arcade panel

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this is vaild for gamepads classic is a gamepad layout

try play double dragon or double dragon 2 on this layout it wont work well

we seperate gamepads and arcade controllers

for gampads (gamepad and 6button(snes) are for sf2) and classic is for the rest

for arcade panel
6button is what you want

(8 button panel) gamepad is fba modern suitable for fightsticks or modern controller
8 panel is is alternative mapping for when you use other cores i use this one.

now that all being said im quite happy to make gamepads switch layouts there is no way in hell i want my arcade panel acting like a gamepad I might as well throw it out. Im still open to ideas.

what i would like to say is neogeo is laid out like this.

1 2 3 4

1 2
3 4

and

123
4

are just as avails as each other,

i do agree on the row switch and i will do this at some point

barbudreadmon

@grant2258 said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

i disagree slightly here that below is correct for arcade panel
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this is vaild for gamepads classic is a gamepad layout

Actually, i looked at dozens of original cabinets while working on controls in fba :

3-buttons arcade machine generally didn't have their buttons placed on a "straight line", one of the button was more or less offseted from the line formed by the 2 other, sometimes (i would say half of the ones i looked at) clearly forming a triangle
most 4-buttons arcade machine i looked at had their button placed as a quad.

So, while having a mapping friendly for most case was my concern, it happened to match original cabinet layout in a lot of case.

grant2258

  2 
1   3

is the usual setup for an arcade is would agree

fba would traslate to

3 4 x
1 2 x

plus would be

 1 2 3 
 x x x

the more arcade friendly arcade mapping would be

x 2 x
1 x 3

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there is no issue thet the 1234 patter used in fba is good for gamepads

anyway all people have different preferences

i think

1 2 3

or

x 2 x
1 x 3

is more realistic for me for arcade panels for 3 buttons

the 4 button setup varies in quads or in a row

I am leaving this as is in mame2003 + the user can remap buttons that dont fit there preference. Mame2003 ended up a mess when you tried to force controls on people. The defaults should work for most games as it does in mame mainline.

the use can remap there keys on games if needed im not going to enforce my preferences on them.

Clyde

@grant2258 said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

anyway all people have different preferences
x 2 x
1 x 3

Indeed. I tend to map such games to

1 2 3
1 2 3

or in case of Mortal Kombat, which has a single Block button in the middle,

HP BL HK  (High Punch, BLock, High Kick)
LP BL LK  (Low Punch, BLock, Low Kick)

so it won't matter much if I hit the wrong key as long as I hit its correct horizontal position. As a bonus, guests tend to search less often for working keys. ;)

But that's just me, I don't know if I would recommend that as default.

grant2258

@Clyde the problem with mk is it has 5 button as far as i can remember i could be wrong.

i think it was like this in the arcade

o   o
  o
o   o

grant2258

i personally map my 8 button setup like this.

1 2 3 4
4 5 6

this handles neogeo and 6 buttons out of the wrapper.

however it really shoud be

456
1234

it the other way round so sf2 maps right. Ill make some change so it maps

456
123

without changing drivers else it will end up in tears like it did for mame2003

Amplifuzz

I'm having similar issues. I have a 6 button setup, set SNES style. 6 button fighters are mapped correctly, but 3 button games in the upward triangle shape like Altered Beast and Double Dragon are not as I remember them. I checked the manuals and indeed they have punch and kick on the bottom and jump on the top, unlike the Retropie cores. Is there a catch-all setting for that?

grant2258

@Amplifuzz nope there isint a catch all. teh 6 button should is 3 in a row for mame+ I personlly think

or

 2
1x3

is acceptable

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is not acceptable on an arcade panel though for 3 button games

if you want the triangle youll need to map it that way. I would like to update mame at some point so we can change this unfortunately updates would be needed for this and everyone has a different idea of what is best. but i want to add code to swap the rows at some point. Problem is the controls are in a define that makes a structure instead of a structure thats editable. I might change this one day for more felxablity

The standard mame2003+ is set in the 8 button or 6 button for arcades so you know where every button is

Clyde

@grant2258 Maybe a "6 button triangle" preset would be feasable next to "6 button"?

Happy new year to all of you!

grant2258

@Clyde said in Matching Mame2003-plus and FBAlpha controls:

@grant2258 Maybe a "6 button triangle" preset would be feasable next to "6 button"?

Happy new year to all of you!

you would think so the code would need updated uses static defined maps. I do agree more flexibility is needed but the original option should remain you map the button the way they are superposed to be.

ie

123
XYL
BAR
456

works for most games if you want to map a game manually for now or swap the buttons you can do it per game not like its impossible at the moment. Some people may prefare this way it is now fair. Forcing auto swaps on people isint a good thing should be optional or you end up with an arcade panel that mapped like a gamepad or the user has no idea where button 3 is when it changes from game to game.

Its easy enough to swap the 123 456 rows for now with ra remaps for now.
The code would need changed to swap this automatically because of teh way its done right now

Clyde

@grant2258 I just thought that a "triangle" option next to "gamepad", "gamepad classic" etc. would be a nice addition to set 3-button games quickly to the triangle mapping. It shouldn't anger people if it's not set as default.

Another way would be to add an additional option that works in accord with the "6 button" preset, setting it either to "normal"

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or "triangle"

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Again, that is only an idea to speed up the setup of 3-button games to a triangle. It's not really important.

grant2258

I do agree with what you are saying its just not do easy to implement in the code atm.

Clyde

@grant2258 Ah, good. I wasn't sure if I did understand you correctly. :)

Clyde

@grant2258 I like the current presets very much, by the way. The "gamepad classic" works for me for my upright cabinet's six buttons in most 1-3 button games perfectly, because I like to have button 1+2 on the lower left, whereas the "6 button" preset makes setting up Street Fighter type games very quick and easy.

grant2258

to be honest mame would be so much easier to setup it we used it natively instead of trying to interface it into RA. FBA doesnt have this issue because is has no internal remapping at all like mame does.

It feels to me at times we are limiting mame due to the way RA controls work and to integrate them into RA. Marks done a good job of meeting half way but RA has no where near the flexibility that mame tab menu has. The problem is if we remap in mame it will mess with the ra side of controls so what do you do just limit it thats all you can do atm

Amplifuzz

Here's my proposal for the "6 button triangle" layout: 3 button games on snes layouts should auto-snap to something like this:

2 2 1
1 3 3

The rationale is that on a lot of arcade cabinets the top and bottom rows are offset from each other, sometimes to the left, other times to the right and this layout accomodates all setups regardless of the slant.

like this:

2__2__1
__1__3__3

or this:

__2__2__1
1__3__3

In fact this setup with the aligned rows

x 2 x
1 x 3

is indeed suboptimal and way different from the arcade experience, because the triangle is way too spaced. Having offset rows with this layout allows for a truer "arcade triangle" vibe. It would also work great on modern ergonomic curved layouts.

What do you guys think?

grant2258

well this is my take on it

aligns close enough to play a game

as far as i know fba is doing a below i could be wrong for 1 - 4 buttons

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