3DO: The Pi4 Emulation Nobody Loves?

neek · 22 Aug 2020, 15:44

@trapexit Well if you're one of the core Opera emulator guys I just want to say THANK YOU! Road Rash was one of my favorites, but it's amazing to relive these games from years past. And M1 was a complicated enough system that I was very surprised to find an emulator existed, never mind that it works so well! I don't have any technical docs on the platform anymore but I do have a few 3DO friends that I'm still in touch with, so if you ever get stuck trying to figure something out, let me know and I can ping some hardware guys, other OS guys, or whatever.

trapexit · 22 Aug 2020, 16:02

@neek Glad you've enjoyed it. The Phoenix emulator is actually more accurate but closed source. As for Opera... I didn't write it. That credit goes to the FreeDO folks. But I did revive and adopt the libretro 4DO core. Cleaning up the code and adding some new features. I hope to work on core emulation in the not too distant future (the DSP and CPU both need work wrt accuracy and the MADAM and CLIO aren't the most performant and not entirely accurate.) I just need to get done with some other projects. I spent a bunch of time reading and rereading patents and SDK docs and trying to independently document subsystems in preparation.

As for your offer... that would be amazing. Any info could help out. Any official documentation would be great even if only for archival reasons. I'd really love to get access to the OS source code. I've seen evidence that it exists in someone's hands but it's never been released generally probably due to copyright concerns. TBH I really really doubt anyone cares about all that much which is why I've been pretty cavalier with uploading things to my website. Not that I'd not take things down if asked but the IP has been spread out so far and wide seems all abandonware now. If you think it wouldn't be uncouth to blanket ask if your acquaintances have and would be willing to share anything they might have that might be the easiest. Otherwise I'll reach out if I run into something specific.

George Spiggott · 22 Aug 2020, 18:37

I'm seeing a lot of love for 3DO Road Rash. I remember a local electronics store had it to demo along with AVP on the Jaguar. I bought the PS1 version not long after I bought my PS1. Is there anything special about the 3DO version?

sirhenrythe5th · 22 Aug 2020, 18:53

@George-Spiggott gosh, i forgot about that! I had this game too on my real 3DO and played it a lot!
I started to play the PSX Version on Retropie a while ago, still a great game.
As far as i remember the soundtrack is different, i could swear that the 3DO Version came with "black whole sun" from soundgarden(?)

trapexit · 22 Aug 2020, 19:10

@sirhenrythe5th @George-Spiggott

As I recall there is no real differences between the 3DO, PSX, and Saturn versions (outside framerate). Black Hole Sun isn't on there. Superunknown and Kickstand are the tracks from the album Superunknown. Outshined and Rusty Cage from Badmotorfinger.

https://vgost.fandom.com/wiki/Road_Rash
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0263941/soundtrack?ref_=tt_trv_snd

Some comparison videos are on YouTube:

trapexit · 22 Aug 2020, 19:23

BTW... not sure how well it'll work on a Pi4 but Opera allows you to overclock the CPU and that can improve the framerate on Road Rash.

George Spiggott · 22 Aug 2020, 21:10

I took the plunge and added 3DO Road Rash to my collection. The 3DO version seems to have an option to see the bike's speedo which I cannot replicate on the PS1 version. I can also confirm that the game seems to run at full speed on my Pi4, although I am running a fairly heavy overclock as per my sig.

The game music was a big draw for me as it also includes Therapy? and Monster Magnet on the soundtrack. I was always rather dissapointed that it did not play while you raced.

AdamBeGood · 23 Aug 2020, 13:32

I've just got 3DO working - has anyone got any performance tips aside from Overclocking the CPU in the settings?

Sewer Shark is a little bit stuttery for me - I'd like to play it, it looks cheesy AF. :)

trapexit · 23 Aug 2020, 13:43

Don't overclock the 3DO's CPU. That will make things worse.

The VDLP pixel format and VDLP bypass clut settings can be changed which may improve performance a bit. Make sure HiRes CEL rendering is disabled. I doubt OperaOS SWI HLE would make a difference on a non 3D game. WRT to core settings that's about it.

neek · 23 Aug 2020, 15:46

@trapexit I just reached out to a few. There's some who would definitely have material, I'll just see what they're willing to share. :-)

neek · 23 Aug 2020, 15:48

@sirhenrythe5th The 3DO version's soundtrack was from Soundgarden. Rusty Cage and Outshined, and a fair bit of other great music.

AdamBeGood · 23 Aug 2020, 19:17

@trapexit Yep! That has definitely helped. It's a hard game now I'm giving it a play....

ReadyPlayaWon · 24 Aug 2020, 05:57

@AdamBeGood said in 3DO: The Pi4 Emulation Nobody Loves?:

I've just got 3DO working - has anyone got any performance tips aside from Overclocking the CPU in the settings?

enable runcommand from the Retropie Setup screen and hit a button before the game launches and select a lower resolution eg. 640x480 @ 60Hz (which is the 3DO's native resolution) you won't see a big difference in resolution if you run higher than that, but you should see a better performance by using a lower resolution.

also in the lr-opera 'options' screen select Threaded DSP = On ... which is supposed to improve performance on multi core processors.

neek · 24 Aug 2020, 06:07

@trapexit said in 3DO: The Pi4 Emulation Nobody Loves?:

As for your offer... that would be amazing. Any info could help out. Any official documentation would be great even if only for archival reasons. I'd really love to get access to the OS source code. I've seen evidence that it exists in someone's hands but it's never been released generally probably due to copyright concerns. TBH I really really doubt anyone cares about all that much which is why I've been pretty cavalier with uploading things to my website. Not that I'd not take things down if asked but the IP has been spread out so far and wide seems all abandonware now. If you think it wouldn't be uncouth to blanket ask if your acquaintances have and would be willing to share anything they might have that might be the easiest. Otherwise I'll reach out if I run into something specific.

I just sent you an email.. Got something which should be of help.

trapexit · 24 Aug 2020, 11:58

@ReadyPlayaWon Threaded DSP is not stable. It's likely to crash. It was more of an experiment and would need a lot more attention to ensure proper synchronization.

AdamBeGood · 24 Aug 2020, 13:14

@ReadyPlayaWon Cheers for the Resolution shout, I should have tried that. Think it has improved things slightly.

Trying out "Killing Time". I quite like it so far, but it is a bit juddery. Playable, just about.

ReadyPlayaWon · 24 Aug 2020, 14:23

@AdamBeGood said in 3DO: The Pi4 Emulation Nobody Loves?:

Trying out "Killing Time". I quite like it so far, but it is a bit juddery. Playable, just about.

Killing Time on my RPi4 is pretty smooth for the most part.

RPI4 is overclocked and the lr-opera overclock settings do sometimes help .. i'm at 1.5x (18.75Mhz) and it's pretty smooth for an old game (not 60fps butter smooth, but better than what the real game on the real console could do)

Still have my original copy of Killing Time and a Panasonic FZ-1 for comparison :)

ReadyPlayaWon · 24 Aug 2020, 14:35

@trapexit said in 3DO: The Pi4 Emulation Nobody Loves?:

Threaded DSP is not stable. It's likely to crash

Haven't had a single crash with it ON with the many 3DO games i have tried ... i guess i've been lucky ;)

AdamBeGood · 24 Aug 2020, 14:43

@ReadyPlayaWon Interesting - my RPi4 is overclocked, and I'll try out 1.5x to see if that makes it any better. What do you have set for VDLP pixel format and VDLP bypass clut, and OperaOS SWI HLE? (Or anything else you might think is different to the default).

Actually framerate wise it is fine, it's the audio that is choppy rather than the graphical side of things.

I've never played the original console, think I only ever saw one demo model in a shop.

I have had crashes that I think are linked to Threaded DSP, on Snow Job and Killing Time.

trapexit · 24 Aug 2020, 15:25

SWI HLE will help a bit with Killing Time (and any game listed as having matrix multiplication usage https://3dodev.com/documentation/games/game_technical_information).