Anyone getting the Sinden light gun?
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Two more updates since my last post in March:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-sinden-lightgun#/updates/all
There's also a (new?) updates section on the Sinden homepage:
https://www.sindenlightgun.com/productionupdates/
Seems like my order #4957 is finally coming into view.
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@clyde I think I'm around the 10k mark.. 😭
Looking forward to hearing what you make of the gun though, and at least there will be plenty of people to help me out with set-up if necessary by the time I eventually get mine...
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@adambegood That's the spirit. 😉👍
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I've been really lazy when it comes to my Retropie build lately. I need to get on setting this up. That dog isn't going to be able to infuriate me otherwise.
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I just got the holsters for my two guns. I wonder why they are sent separately, and when the guns will arrive. But I guess it's a good sign. 🧐
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Contribution ID: 2507. I received today, in Italy, with recoil :)
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I have installed the sinden software but no success with lr-mame2003 and lr-pcsx-rearmed. With mame2003 i can fire in Operation Wolf and sometimes move up and down. :(
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@chupachups How does the software work exactly? How does the Sinden appear to the system? Is the installation manual available online?
If it appears as a mouse, trackball or the like, maybe Spinners, Trackballs, Lightguns, Mice could help you set it up.
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software avaiable in sinden website
wiki at https://sindenlightgun.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Pagethe "Lightgun" folder must be copied in /home/pi/ directory on the Pi
Then 2 commands: ./setup-lightgun.sh and ./setup-retropie.sh from this folder
Then in emulationstation in PORTS we have the command for lauch and test the gun
But, after installation i can't use trackball/mouse/airmouse/touchpad in lr-mame2003 (with various mouse index)
Now i'm building my flipper (24" HD with an android tv box, similar to "sharpin pinball") and I can't do other tests.
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@chupachups Thanks for the link. I guess you followed the instructions in https://sindenlightgun.miraheze.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi_Setup_Guide step by step (as far as they apply to you).
Does the gun work in the test application?
Do you see the colored border that the gun uses to orient itself?
I'll leave it to you if and when to answer. Have fun with your flipper project. 👍 I may come back to this after I get my gun. (In any other situation, this would be a somewhat alarming statement. 😁 )
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:D :D
In application test (with border) is ok
in lr-mame2003 (with border) sometimes the cursor moves (only vertical or only horizontal and unstable)
keys ok, i can map them (someones like mouse1/2/3 button, someone like ALT/Num1, Dpad ok) -
@chupachups Strange. The way I would test this further is to try other emulators like mame2003+ or home consoles like nes which is used as an example in the Sinden Setup Guide.
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ok, for me sinden lightgun work like a mouse
if you want to return to use a mouse/trackball/airmouse must use the command in "ports": STOPSINDENLIGHTGUN -
My two non-recoil Sindens arrived two days ago. 🤣 But their installation and testing will have to wait until the coming weekend. 😭
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So … here are some first results.
Positive:
- The guns are really nice and well-built. Their size and weight is perfect for a tall, middle-aged, fairly sporty man like me. 😉
- The hardware seems to work perfectly according to my tests so far.
- Installation on the approx. 17 months old stock RetroPie of my Pi 4 worked as described in @Chupachups' post above. 👍
- When the gun was first sent back to Britain because the German delivery service didn't notice me of its failed delivery attempt in my absence, the very friendly Sinden support sent it again to me without any extra charges. (They failed to give me a tracking link the first time, so they weren't completely innocent of the failed attempt. They gave me the link the second time.)
Negative:
- The "Linux drivers" are actually Windows NET applications run by Mono on Linux. I would prefer real native Linux drivers, as now I suspect any problems to come (partially) from this additional software layer.
- On Linux, there is no system-wide border that you can enable as on Windows. Because of that, you'll have to use Sinden's border overlays in RetroArch. That means that you'll have to use similar means for other emulators or native games on Linux, and as far as I understand RetroArch's overlay system, you can't use your own overlays and the Sinden border overlay at the same time. (?) It would be nice if Sinden provided a system-wide border like they do on Windows.
- The test program for the Pi froze at first in several attemps so hard that even "sudo kill -9" couldn't end it. I had to restart the Pi to get rid of it. Strangely, this was "fixed" by not starting the Pi drivers before running the test, and it didn't freeze again since then regardless of the drivers are running or not. (?)
- That said, the test program still exits with this error every time when I quit it by moving the pointer to the bottom right of the screen:
1399 Segmentation fault sudo mono LightgunMono.exe sdl 30(An "exe" isn't something you like to see on your Linux machines. 😡 )
- The Windows application also crashed on multiple occations on my Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit, notably in the middle updating the firmware. 😮 I feared that I may have bricked the gun, but it still worked. Strangely again, later firmware updates went through perfectly (yeah, I had to try it again … danger seeker 😎 ).
So, the software on neither Linux nor Windows seems to be matured. My Windows 10 is very much the stock installation, since I only use it for some games and Windows-only applications. My main system is Linux.
Problems at hand:
- Although the guns are now recognised on my Pi, neither
lr-fceummnorlr-nestopiaseem to recognise them – or their mouse part at least. The crosshair won't move, and the mouse buttons (trigger and foremost two left buttons on the gun) can't be bound in the RetroArch GUI. In contrast, the d-pad and the two keyboard buttons on the right side of the guns are recognized.
The guns show up in
/proc/bus/input/devices:I: Bus=0003 Vendor=16c0 Product=0f38 Version=0101 N: Name="Unknown SindenLightgun Keyboard" P: Phys=usb-0000:01:00.0-1.4.2.2/input2 S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/scb/fd500000.pcie/pci0000:00/0000:00:00.0/0000:01:00.0/usb1/1-1/1-1.4/1-1.4.2/1-1.4.2.2/1-1.4.2.2:1.2/0003:16C0:0F38.0003/input/input1 U: Uniq=HIDLG H: Handlers=sysrq kbd event1 B: PROP=0 B: EV=100013 B: KEY=e080ffdf 1cfffff ffffffff fffffffe B: MSC=10 I: Bus=0003 Vendor=16c0 Product=0f38 Version=0101 N: Name="Unknown SindenLightgun Mouse" P: Phys=usb-0000:01:00.0-1.4.2.2/input2 S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/scb/fd500000.pcie/pci0000:00/0000:00:00.0/0000:01:00.0/usb1/1-1/1-1.4/1-1.4.2/1-1.4.2.2/1-1.4.2.2:1.2/0003:16C0:0F38.0003/input/input2 U: Uniq=HIDLG H: Handlers=mouse0 event2 B: PROP=0 B: EV=1b B: KEY=70000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 B: ABS=3 B: MSC=10 I: Bus=0003 Vendor=32e4 Product=9210 Version=0100 N: Name="SindenCameraJ" P: Phys=usb-0000:01:00.0-1.4.2.1/button S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/scb/fd500000.pcie/pci0000:00/0000:00:00.0/0000:01:00.0/usb1/1-1/1-1.4/1-1.4.2/1-1.4.2.1/1-1.4.2.1:1.0/input/input9 U: Uniq= H: Handlers=kbd event9 B: PROP=0 B: EV=3 B: KEY=100000 0 0 0 0 0 0And their buttons work in
evtest:$ evtest /dev/input/event2 Event: time 1625987786.208948, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------ Event: time 1625987786.647019, type 4 (EV_MSC), code 4 (MSC_SCAN), value 90001 Event: time 1625987786.647019, type 1 (EV_KEY), code 272 (BTN_LEFT), value 1 Event: time 1625987786.647019, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------ Event: time 1625987786.846078, type 4 (EV_MSC), code 4 (MSC_SCAN), value 90001 Event: time 1625987786.846078, type 1 (EV_KEY), code 272 (BTN_LEFT), value 0 Event: time 1625987786.846078, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------ Event: time 1625987787.510191, type 4 (EV_MSC), code 4 (MSC_SCAN), value 90002 Event: time 1625987787.510191, type 1 (EV_KEY), code 273 (BTN_RIGHT), value 1 Event: time 1625987787.510191, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------ Event: time 1625987787.671197, type 4 (EV_MSC), code 4 (MSC_SCAN), value 90002 Event: time 1625987787.671197, type 1 (EV_KEY), code 273 (BTN_RIGHT), value 0 Event: time 1625987787.671197, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------ Event: time 1625987788.256340, type 4 (EV_MSC), code 4 (MSC_SCAN), value 90003 Event: time 1625987788.256340, type 1 (EV_KEY), code 274 (BTN_MIDDLE), value 1 Event: time 1625987788.256340, -------------- SYN_REPORT ------------ Event: time 1625987788.414346, type 4 (EV_MSC), code 4 (MSC_SCAN), value 90003 Event: time 1625987788.414346, type 1 (EV_KEY), code 274 (BTN_MIDDLE), value 0So, my Sinden experience is kinda mixed at the moment. I'll try other systems like Playstation and Mega Drive, other diagnostic measures like disconnecting all unneeded USB devices (like my two SpinTrak spinners that also show up as mice in the system), and maybe try the custom RetroPie "Bare Bones" image from the Sinden wiki.
Any suggestions are welcome.
Cheers
Clyde -
Update: I tested the gun on my Desktop x86 PC running Kubuntu Linux 18.04 LTS.
- The test program opened a non-fullscreen window that was positioned too low to show the whole border, and couldn't be made fullscreen by normal means. Thus, the gun didn't recognise the partly-shown border. Only after I forced the window to be fullscreen, it worked as expected. All hail the window rules of KDE Plasma's window manager Kwin. 🍻
- Alas, the gun doesn't work either with this machine's RetroPie installation. Though in contrast to my Pi, the trigger and side buttons of the gun can be bound as mouse buttons in RetroArch, there's still no moving crosshair in
lr-fcecummrunning Duck Hunt. My normal PC mouse, however, does work out of the box with the game.
I'm going to bed now. Stay tuned for further updates.
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I'm not exactly sold on this, I wish they make this more open so it would work on my Raspberry Pi unit running Lakka OS.
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@emulatre71 Yes, I also wish they would make their drivers and tools open source and release them on an public online repository like Github. Ideally, they'd go the extra mile and get the driver integrated in the Linux kernel. Then the guns should run on most Linux devices out of the box like so many other devices do. But I doubt this will happen in the forseeable future.
As for Lakka, according to this thread on the LibRetro forums, there are severe incompatibilities in software (Lakka doesn't have Mono) and licensing (Sinden's software is closed source and reserves all rights to themselves).
I don't understand how today a project that is targeted primarily at the retrogaming and emulation community can be so closed-minded (and -sourced) that they don't see the benefits of opening their code for improvement by that same community, when most emulators, frontends, and tools already took that route.
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@clyde said in Anyone getting the Sinden light gun?:
@emulatre71 Yes, I also wish they would make their drivers and tools open source and release them on an public online repository like Github. Ideally, they'd go the extra mile and get the driver integrated in the Linux kernel.
I don't think they have any kernel driver included, isn't the device emulating a keyboard + mouse input, which should work OOB on both Windows and Linux ?
As for Lakka, according to this thread on the LibRetro forums, there are severe incompatibilities in software (Lakka doesn't have Mono) and licensing (Sinden's software is closed source and reserves all rights to themselves).
'severe incompatibility' is a bit far fetched. It's the calibration/configuration utility that is not supported and Lakka is a 'sealed' system (i.e. you can't install anything on it).
I don't understand how today a project that is targeted primarily at the retrogaming and emulation community can be so closed-minded (and -sourced) ...
Did 8bitDo / Microsoft open source their hardware or utilities ? The fact that it works - also - with open source emulators/software doesn't require open sourcing the hardware or the configuration utility. I don't see an issue with the creator retaining the rights on their creations and - at least in the first phase - trying to make a profit off of it. See for instance RetroTink Ultimate, which open sourced the design of their RGB hat after the author decided it wouldn't produce it anymore.
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