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    Anyone getting the Sinden light gun?

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion and Gaming
    sindenlightgun
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    • ClydeC
      Clyde @Emulatre71
      last edited by Clyde

      @emulatre71 Yes, I also wish they would make their drivers and tools open source and release them on an public online repository like Github. Ideally, they'd go the extra mile and get the driver integrated in the Linux kernel. Then the guns should run on most Linux devices out of the box like so many other devices do. But I doubt this will happen in the forseeable future.

      As for Lakka, according to this thread on the LibRetro forums, there are severe incompatibilities in software (Lakka doesn't have Mono) and licensing (Sinden's software is closed source and reserves all rights to themselves).

      I don't understand how today a project that is targeted primarily at the retrogaming and emulation community can be so closed-minded (and -sourced) that they don't see the benefits of opening their code for improvement by that same community, when most emulators, frontends, and tools already took that route.

      mituM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • mituM
        mitu Global Moderator @Clyde
        last edited by

        @clyde said in Anyone getting the Sinden light gun?:

        @emulatre71 Yes, I also wish they would make their drivers and tools open source and release them on an public online repository like Github. Ideally, they'd go the extra mile and get the driver integrated in the Linux kernel.

        I don't think they have any kernel driver included, isn't the device emulating a keyboard + mouse input, which should work OOB on both Windows and Linux ?

        As for Lakka, according to this thread on the LibRetro forums, there are severe incompatibilities in software (Lakka doesn't have Mono) and licensing (Sinden's software is closed source and reserves all rights to themselves).

        'severe incompatibility' is a bit far fetched. It's the calibration/configuration utility that is not supported and Lakka is a 'sealed' system (i.e. you can't install anything on it).

        I don't understand how today a project that is targeted primarily at the retrogaming and emulation community can be so closed-minded (and -sourced) ...

        Did 8bitDo / Microsoft open source their hardware or utilities ? The fact that it works - also - with open source emulators/software doesn't require open sourcing the hardware or the configuration utility. I don't see an issue with the creator retaining the rights on their creations and - at least in the first phase - trying to make a profit off of it. See for instance RetroTink Ultimate, which open sourced the design of their RGB hat after the author decided it wouldn't produce it anymore.

        ClydeC 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • ClydeC
          Clyde @mitu
          last edited by Clyde

          [deleted because sent accidentally before finishing]

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • ClydeC
            Clyde @mitu
            last edited by

            @mitu said in Anyone getting the Sinden light gun?:

            I don't think they have any kernel driver included, isn't the device emulating a keyboard + mouse input, which should work OOB on both Windows and Linux ?

            I don't think so either, I just wish they would.

            Without the mono driver, the gun is registered as three USB devices: a camera, a keyboard, and a mouse. But it needs the driver to recognise the white or coloured border around the screen to pinpoint its position and bearing. Without it, the "mouse" either doesn't give any movement output or just gibberish.

            'severe incompatibility' is a bit far fetched. It's the calibration/configuration utility that is not supported and Lakka is a 'sealed' system (i.e. you can't install anything on it).

            It's mostly semantics, but I would call a sealed system without a necessary component (mono) and a license that prohibits any distribution of the driver and tools except by the hardware's vendor quite severe obstacles.

            Did 8bitDo / Microsoft open source their hardware or utilities ?

            I don't know about 8bitDo, but Power Shell and NET were open sourced years ago. Microsoft is far from a role model for openness, but even they invest heavily in open source since their currenct CEO changed the company's course in the 2010s. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_and_open_source for details.

            Better examples would be Intel who have a long history of open source drivers, and AMD who still have an closed source driver but work together with the community on an open source driver that is way better than the NVidia counterpart that is ignored or even hindered by Nvidia.

            The fact that it works - also - with open source emulators/software doesn't require open sourcing the hardware or the configuration utility. I don't see an issue with the creator retaining the rights on their creations and - at least in the first phase - trying to make a profit off of it.

            It doesn't require it, but it could take some load off the developers of this small company, by letting the community participating in the process. In which way would the creator lose any rights? Open sourcing doesn't take any from them that I can think of.

            That said, Sinden doesn't make profit from its software that is freely available from their website. Its the hardware – or the combination of both – that people have already paid millions for. I don't see how that's going to change by opening the software to scrutiny and collaboration. They could even retain some binary microcode inside for critical parts like the border detection.

            See for instance RetroTink Ultimate, which open sourced the design of their RGB hat after the author decided it wouldn't produce it anymore.

            It's nice if creators do that (id software is another prominent example), but that doesn't say anything about closed source being necessary for profit. In fact, the countless profitable open source based projects and companys contrict that thesis, as does the heavy investment of global corporations in this sector.

            I don't want to hijack this thread. Please feel free to detach our discussion to a new one at your discretion. πŸ˜‡

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • E
              Emulatre71
              last edited by

              There are many of use who are sick and tired of the bs associated with proprietary software. I would love to see more trends towards Open Source.

              ChupachupsC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • ChupachupsC
                Chupachups @Emulatre71
                last edited by Chupachups

                If it was open source I could easily find the solution to the problems here. Instead I bought the article and as soon as I connected, following the instructions, it didn't work.

                It is true that I have been busy with something else so far and have not run any further tests. I reinstalled Retropie and followed the instructions. Now I also have to reconfigure everything on that raspberry.

                But I don't know English well, neither linux, nor Discord. So I can't even quite understand what to try to solve.

                It could be the reason why many users resold the gun on ebay a few days after receiving it.

                ClydeC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • ClydeC
                  Clyde @Chupachups
                  last edited by Clyde

                  @chupachups Well, FOSS (free and open source software) isn't some kind of magic that fixes everything – you still need people who have the skills and motivation for it. But at least FOSS makes it a possibility, whereas CSS hinders any collaboration of the community. And I think that especially small businesses with a niche consumer base can profit from such collaboration.

                  It could be the reason why many users resold the gun on ebay a few days after receiving it.

                  That, or they want to exploit the current scarcity of the guns to get more than they themselves paid for them.

                  I don't have time to tinker with mine before the weekend. My next plans are to try the β€žBare Bonesβ€œ image and a vestal official RetroPie image. If one of those does work, I'll compare their config files to find any clues.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • ClydeC
                    Clyde
                    last edited by Clyde

                    Update: After some tedious testing with the Bare Bones image, I found out that the mouse index in RetroArch isn't the same as the system's. As said before, the Sinden gun appears as /dev/input/mouse0 and /dev/input/event2 in the system. But in RetroArch, I have to set the mouse index to 1!

                    So far, so irritating. πŸ™„ Now I can move the cursor in both lr-fceumm and lr-pcsx-rearmed, not only in the Bare Bones image, but also in my own RetroPie system.
                    πŸ˜€πŸ»πŸ˜

                    BUT alas, solving one problem led to the next: The gun seems to assume a higher screen resolution than lr-fceumm and lr-pcsx-rearmed provide, i.e. the crosshair is way too fast and will already have reached the screen border when the gun's real aim just moved approx. a third of that distance. Calibrating the gun by holding lefton its D-Pad for three seconds doesn't fix that, as it aligns the aim at one position, but from there the movement is still too fast.

                    I couldn't find any reports about this phenomenon on the web. My monitor's native resolution is 1600x1200. Changing the aspect ratio in RetroArch doesn't fix the problem.

                    Any ideas? Otherwise, my next step will be to contact Sinden support and/or asking on https://www.reddit.com/r/SindenLightgun/. But not today, the lengthy troubleshooting was enough for one day. πŸ˜›

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • ChupachupsC
                      Chupachups
                      last edited by Chupachups

                      I can't download the BAREBONES 7.1 image, from HarryDogs site (https://barebones.lightgun.dev/bb7x1.rar), it always stops
                      :( :( :(

                      ClydeC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote -1
                      • ClydeC
                        Clyde @Chupachups
                        last edited by Clyde

                        @chupachups How do you try to download it?

                        If everything else fails, boot up your normal RetroPie and use wget. ;)

                        Download to the current directory:

                        wget https://barebones.lightgun.dev/bb7x1.rar
                        

                        Download to the system's root directory that can be read in Windows:

                        sudo wget -P / https://barebones.lightgun.dev/bb7x1.rar
                        
                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • ChupachupsC
                          Chupachups
                          last edited by Chupachups

                          Thanks for the hint. Today the download from firefox is ok.

                          EDIT: installed but.. don't work the player1test :( I will try another time tomorrow

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • DipkidD
                            Dipkid
                            last edited by

                            Noticed my production / order id was cleared at the factory sometime in the last weeks.
                            Did you guys get a tracking number pretty quickly, or did the gun just show up in the end?

                            RetroPC: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/13048/the-1976-retropc-diy-retro-gaming-computer-build
                            Wallcab: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/28324/wall-mounted-cab-2-0
                            Candy Cab: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/34290/diy-candy-cab-arcade

                            theissdevT ChupachupsC 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • theissdevT
                              theissdev @Dipkid
                              last edited by

                              @dipkid Mine just showed up.

                              Cocktail Cab Project - https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/23763/cocktail-cab-project?_=1592408967951

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • ChupachupsC
                                Chupachups @Dipkid
                                last edited by

                                @dipkid just showed up

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • ClydeC
                                  Clyde
                                  last edited by

                                  @chupachups said in Anyone getting the Sinden light gun?:

                                  @dipkid just showed up

                                  As did another Update:

                                  https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-sinden-lightgun#/updates/all

                                  DipkidD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • DipkidD
                                    Dipkid @Clyde
                                    last edited by

                                    @clyde yeah, thats where i saw mine should be on the way. im a #7000 backer

                                    RetroPC: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/13048/the-1976-retropc-diy-retro-gaming-computer-build
                                    Wallcab: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/28324/wall-mounted-cab-2-0
                                    Candy Cab: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/34290/diy-candy-cab-arcade

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • ClydeC
                                      Clyde
                                      last edited by

                                      Another update, this time with some news about improving the software (mainly for Windows, but Linux was at least mentioned honorably):

                                      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-sinden-lightgun#/updates/all

                                      For the Linux software I have the stability improvements that are overdue for release which I will release this month (hopefully next week) but I will be dedicating some time and effort to the Linux software after the Windows improvements are released. A front end is most definitely required to make things a lot easier to setup and diagnose any issues.

                                      Let's hope that they don't forget (or forgo) the ARM Linux drivers, which I suspect to be second in number of users after Windows, because of the Pi's popularity in the retro gaming community.

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                      • A
                                        AdamBeGood
                                        last edited by AdamBeGood

                                        My gun has arrived!

                                        I have it working on Duck Hunt, then had a quick look at MAME2016 as I want to try Beast Busters but couldn't suss that at all just yet - there doesn't seem to be an option to select a gun as an input device (ie. "Zapper" for NES).

                                        I'll have another look later though, should do some work now...

                                        retropieuser555R B 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • retropieuser555R
                                          retropieuser555 @AdamBeGood
                                          last edited by

                                          @adambegood https://docs.libretro.com/library/mame_2003/ granted this is 2003 so options might be different but apparently light guns can be supported using some of the option functions?

                                          Pi 5 4GB

                                          Retroflag GPI with raspberry pi zero 2 w/ wifi

                                          Retroachievements:- lovelessrapture

                                          A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                          • A
                                            AdamBeGood @retropieuser555
                                            last edited by AdamBeGood

                                            @retropieuser555 said in Anyone getting the Sinden light gun?:

                                            @adambegood https://docs.libretro.com/library/mame_2003/ granted this is 2003 so options might be different but apparently light guns can be supported using some of the option functions?

                                            Cheers! I'll have a look at that. I did see lightgun options in the Tab menu on MAME2016 but my gun wasn't responding when I tried to map it.

                                            I've almost got PCSX Rearmed to work. I find on Time Crisis when I press the cover button, the character doesn't stay out of cover so it is impossible to get a shot off. Not sure how to remedy that.

                                            It's fun to be tinkering with the Pi again anyway.

                                            retropieuser555R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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