Switching default NES emulator - Opinions wanted.
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@dankcushions The nes classic palette seems to be the closest to the real thing. Though, it's way too dull for me. I'm using the Unsaturated one and that's fine for me.
@BuZz I still prefer fceumm. I haven't done any extensive testing but I tried Holy Diver in nestopia and it has some weird graphic bugs when walking.
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I second lr-quicknes on rpi0/rpi1.
Im in not sure about lr-fceumm & lr-nestopia.
I myself always use lr-nestopia because of the better sound emulation and accuracy.
But i have not tested all of the Nes library and as @Darksavior mentioned there are some games that doesn't work as intended. But how many or if it's only the Pal release i can't say.I also know that Nestopia recently last year got some new pallets to just like lr-fceumm.
NESCap and Unsaturated V7 (Final) Palletes
nestopia/ 70f4705 -
I like lr-nestopia better for sound and color. Plus it can play playchoice 10 mike tysons punchout and the vs system games. Both emus have issues with some of the vs games but nestopia can play most of them where fceumm loads most of them but as soon as you coin in and hit start you have 100% no controls. As far as on the pi zero nestopia has run just fine on the games i have played without overclocking but yes fceumm is slow as hell. I agree you should switch to quicknes as default based on performance though. Now im not sure what is the genesis default on the pi zero, but i know that genplus gx is super slow and picodrive runs a lot better. Toe jam and earl is a great test between the two. Runs great on picodrive. I know there are some games still that probably require overclocking but i forget which ones might.
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@edmaul69 Color shouldn't matter since both emulators use different palettes by default and are free to choose another one.
I tested a few more games, I didn't notice a difference. I did notice in Nestopia the audio produces static on the screeching sound in Mario 3 when you suddenly run in the opposite direction. Nestopia's audio was also louder for some reason..
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On my pi b+ :
Quicknes playable at full speed decent audio with minor frame dips no overclocking
Fceumm is unplayable even overclocked.
Nestopia is about 90% speed overclocked -
I will switch to quicknes on rpi0/1 - but I will leave fceumm for now I think for rpi2/3
I can get fullspeed from fceumm and Nestopia my pi-b with overclocking.
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I would like to "contribute" to the community by periodically sending over (of course done automatically when I exit configuration) my configuration to a Retropie cloud service. I can then log onto that cloud service to check how much my config differs from others, and a rating system can also hint an optimal configuration.
From your side, you will get data of the most common configuration and so on...
As a start, please implement a configuration switcher just as you do with the theme switcher.
From there I can choose from a set of "popular" configurations.
Thank you for your awesome work!
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I's a little off-topic but I would like to share this info: QuickNES has the best retroachievements compatibility for NES.
(I use my raspi1 as a "cheevos earning machine", then I liked this change :) )
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@meleu Didn't know that - a good argument for it. Since I have made it the default for rpi0/1 now, it also migrated to main, so is easier to switch to.
To help us help you - please make sure you read the sticky topics before posting - https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first
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@BuZz BTW, more info about RetroArch and RetroAchievements compatibility can be found here: https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/wiki/RetroAchievements
Cheers!
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@meleu I'm pretty sure I've said it before, but I think RetroPie is definitely missing a trick by not advertising this feature. I would like to bet that a lot of users, those that perhaps don't bother with the forum, have little or no idea what Retroachievements is or that you can earn 'achievements' playing some of your favourite retro games.
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@robertybob I'm a big RetroAchievements enthusiast, but I have to admit that this feature isn't the most simple and stable one. Some facts:
- RetroAchievements webserver isn't that powerfull and network timeout is a common problem (specially on weekends).
- not every achievement is well done (many of them are buggy).
- the RetroArch "ecosystem" is rich (I mean complex :) ) and not every core has RetroAchievements support.
Then, although I really like this feature, I think that highlighting it can be counterproductive to RetroPie. People will come here to complain that many cheevos aren't working, RetroAchievements site isn't responding, etc. And this forum isn't the best place to report these problems...
That's why it's important to make very clear that RetroPie/Arch/Achievements are different projects. It's not very simple to the noobies, but it's important to make it clear.
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You know what I want on the Pi Zero BuZz! (something that runs at 60 FPS non-overclocked...i.e. lr-quicknes).
To the color palettes, do any of you guys have an original NES and a CRT TV to test it on? Colors look decent on all emulators to me - and this is coming from a Graphic Designer who deals with color every single day.
The problem you see online (which is bitched about) in regards to color accuracy is totally flawed. There is NO way to get the same look on a LCD TV that you get on a CRT TV. Even setting up your LCD (with a Pi) and CRT (with an actual NES console) next to each other is a flawed comparison as your exact LCD TV is going to have a different color scheme than somebody elses LCD TV has. Same goes for your exact CRT TV as well (which by this point is at least 20 years old too you have to remember and not in new condition by any means) - that isn't going to look the same on another CRT TV. You can't simply plug in the NES console to both TV types and expect identical colors either (not to mention upscaling issues too). And don't believe the photo comparisons you see online either - it's impossible to get the camera to take the same picture with different lighting conditions due to the amount of light that comes off each TV type...
Even the exact chipset your exact console has can change the color vs. somebody elses console made at a later date with a chip by a different manufacturer, different cables and connection types, the list just grows and grows (even sound - the Sega Genesis systems in the USA for example had like ~4 different audio chipsets with noticeable sound differences). Anyway, I can go on and on and on about the subtle differences in regards to color but I hope you see my point (which to put it simply: if the game looks good to you, it looks good to you, don't worry about 100% exact color matching because there's no standard to match it to so it will NEVER happen ;)
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@Dochartaigh But then again people still try there hardest to get it to look like it "almost" did on CRT's
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I use Nestopia as my default for everything, FCEumm has this weird setting where it tries to cut off the overscan, but it results in some weird effects in certain games.
Play castlevania 1 with FCEumm and see if you can get a high "core" and see the health of the "nemy"... since the left letters are all cut off.
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@Rion said in Switching default NES emulator - Opinions wanted.:
@Dochartaigh But then again people still try there hardest to get it to look like it "almost" did on CRT's
I totally get it! And I don't know if that's your project or what, so I don't mean any disrespect, but that's pretty flawed as well. In the very first sentence he mentions a PVM monitor....who in their right mind as a 6-year old kid (or even a 30-year old kid back in 1986 ;) played on a multi-thousand dollar PVM monitor? Nobody that's who ;) Hell, a tiny --to us American consumers-- 20" PVM is still like $1,000 probably 30+ years later! People always want what they had "back in the day", and that is a JC Penny special TV for most of us!
His PVM monitor is also going to look different than another PVM monitor (unless they were bought at the same exact time, from the same lot, fine-tuned at the factory right next to each other for identical color profiles, then were tested using an identical NES, same cables, on the same revision of the NES cartridge, were serviced by the same place at the same time over the years using parts ordered from the same supplier, at identical times, from the same parts lots, etc. etc. etc.)...again, you see where I'm going. It's GREAT to match close, but just not "identical" because that simply doesn't exist.
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@Dochartaigh said in Switching default NES emulator - Opinions wanted.:
It's GREAT to match close, but just not "identical" because that simply doesn't exist.
This is very true, but then again, expecting 100% accuracy in any area of emulation will usually invite disappointment. Below is a nice reference to see just how much the color palettes can vary from the original hardware. As many people are aware, the Retron 5 is using lr-fceumm (somewhat illegally) with it's default color palette.
In RetroArch, and by extension RetroPie, the color pallets can of course be altered in both lr-fceumm and lr-nestopia. General consensus seems to have "unsaturated-final" for lr-fceumm and "unsaturated-v7" for lr-nestopia being as close to the original NES color palette as currently possible. Both palettes are actually the same, just named differently between the cores for some reason.
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@Dochartaigh I understand completely what you mean. This is not my project but fun reading and to play around with.
Here are some more links to more Palettes to try out. These are already included in the latest nestopia.
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@mediamogul said in Switching default NES emulator - Opinions wanted.:
Below is a nice reference to see just how much the color palettes can vary from the original hardware. As many people are aware, the Retron 5 is using lr-fceumm (somewhat illegally) with it's default color palette.
Again, sorry to say but that's flawed as well. You're viewing those images (on this forum) on your monitor. I'm viewing them on my monitor. Who's seeing how they "really" are with the different monitors, video cards, cable connections, settings on the monitor itself, etc.
Whose definition is used for the "original hardware"? On what exact NES, what Cartridge, what connection method, what CRT TV, what image capture device or what camera was used to compare the original to these other NES systems/emulators? What was the lighting in that room if the naked eye alone is being the judge of the correct "original hardware" color of an original NES???
Also, how were those screenshots obtained? Via camera? If so what's the lighting in that room? Incandescents or fluorescent lighting, natural lighting? Mixed lighting between all those...? Color balanced with a 18% gray card? What brand card? What sensor does the camera use, what lens?
Or were those screenshots taken with an in-device screen-capturing program, or an in-line capture device? If so, what color space does it use? RGB, sRGB, Adobe RGB, Wide Gamut RGB? Were the images saved as JPGs or PNGs? What program did you convert those 3 images into 1 image for the comparison? What color space did that use? What saving algorithm did they use? What online service did you post them to (those jack up color with their image compression as well!). Again...see what I'm getting at? "Kinda-close approximation" is the best we can get...
P.S. welcome to my color correction hell lol. I just finished a huge project with about 5K worth of just the color proofs to get it absolutely perfect... (well, technically, it was almost, not-quite, kinda but not really 'perfect' ;)
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Again...see what I'm getting at? "Kinda-close approximation" is the best we can get.
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what everyone else here is saying as well. Having these palette options to approximate a real NES will get you incredibly close, but nothing is ever going to be one hundred percent accurate in all situations. Expecting that level of accuracy in any area of emulation is unrealistic to begin with. However, these palette approximations are more than accurate enough for most people and few would disagree that a close approximation is better than nothing at all.
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