Properly Identify Video vs Non Video Themes in the Download List

[pjft]

You can explicitly disable video view in EmulationStation by choosing the default theme view.

Does that not address this concern? I suspect most modern themes will support video but that shouldn't prevent people without videos (or people who don't want videos) from using them.

Or am I missing the use case completely?

[herb_fargus]

@pjft use case is more stupid proofing of retropie. Personally I think we've stupid proofed it too much.

[lilbud]

@herb_fargus Just when you think something is idiot proof, God simply creates a better idiot.

[fnkngrv]

Call it what you want. You work your ass off to build a project like this so I would assume that you would want to encourage people to use it rather than jade them into thinking that your software sucks. Do I think that it is a little overboard on simplifying things? Sure, but it is a suggestion. I see people complain in several places across the net about how for example their Pi Zero locks up/freezes when they use Retropie with it. New people to it that have no clue about how the different views work. There isn't anything out there that tells them "by the way, video snaps don't really work on the Pi Zero or Zero W". It was just a thought. As for labeling people as idiots I am sure that I could rattle off all kinds of things that would make anyone look like an idiot just like you or anyone else could. I will leave it at that.

@pjft There are boards that Retropie runs on as you know that apparently currently don't support video snaps/previews. Yes, a user could change the view of the theme they are using, but like anything else it all depends on how diligent the creator of the theme has been with each view on how the placement for example of boxart is in the detailed view vs the video view. I have gone through a few of the offered themes and tbh I think they look stupid for the non-video detailed view because the boxart is placed off center and looks silly so users I have come across have been discouraged to use it. Then as previously mentioned if users have no idea about how video previews work or what they require they use as an example Cygnus on their Zero build, use the scrapers, end up with video files, and then have their system run like crap or just freeze.

If you believe that the request is too much hand holding then by all means just close it. Its your software after all.

[pjft]

@fnkngrv I don't think anyone means any harm here, and it's far from being anyone's software. As far as I'm aware, anyone can certainly contribute to it. And I don't think it was anyone's intent of labeling anyone in particular "idiot" or "stupid" - it is more of an unfortunately phrased, but quite commonly used expression to describe "making things as simple as humanly possible so that people can't make mistakes on their own".

The Pi Zero is, for all intents and purposes, quite similar to a Pi 1, with the exception of having a slightly more powerful CPU. RetroPie in itself also somewhat struggled with the Pi 1. Sure enough, there will be ways to mitigate that and address that on a case by case basis. Maybe adding this info could be one such guide. Or maybe add that information to the documentation.

At the moment, if someone installs RetroPie it comes with Carbon by default. Carbon (hopefully) works fairly well with video and non-video setups. That should be the default experience for most.

We (the collective "we") cannot ensure nor control the content of the themes by themselves, as it's each author's responsibility and time, ultimately. If someone wishes to try out a new theme, surely enough their mileage may vary - anything from missing systems to sub-optimal layouts if using them with resources for which they weren't designed for (videos vs non-videos).

I agree that it is a sub-optimal experience in that case. If you do have such information already, there's nothing preventing adding it to the themes wiki page (which, last time I visited, was somewhat outdated anyway), or maybe submitting a PR to add that info in a way that is manageable and makes sense, but therein lies the question of whose responsibility it is to keep that information up to date.

I agree with the concern of someone scraping videos and suddenly having their system freeze on them. I would not be shocked if there's a default being set for the Pi 1 or Zero, or maybe a warning message on the scraper if scraping for videos. But - ultimately the data is the deciding factor here - for better or for worse, I haven't personally read about that many cases of people getting into that situation and not being able to solve it (by themeselves?).

Actually, the way I start to think and view the world, it feels more like:

• Plain vanilla old EmulationStation users running with boxart and being happy with their systems: 95%
• Latest EmulationStation users with videos in their data: 3%
• People using the screensaver: 5 people
• People using OMXPlayer: 3 people

Which does give people some perspective on everything we do/use here, vs what the rest of the world is doing/using.

So, without these being factual or anything, my overall perception is:

• Overall good idea and I commend being aware of that for the wider user base;
• Fully support and encourage updating wiki or documentation on that at least;
• I question whether a PR to change that is the way to go, but I won't oppose it myself - with the caveats I mentioned about future data maintenance and such. It might not be accepted for that - or other reasons.
• Really, though, how big a problem is this (in terms of number of users affected) and is it worth adding yet another thing to it with all the potential caveats.

For the use case you're describing, "a lot of people that just want to load something pretty and play their games", I believe/hope that that is somehow already the case, even with some effort on the user's side. The majority of problems new users come to comment on don't seem to be related to videos or themes, if you search the forums, but particular emulators, or ROM placement, or odd setups like old TVs, etc. We've had videos for... 6 months, maybe, and the Pi Zero has been around for a while!

But don't let this or anyone discourage you though. I think contributions are welcome and valid - and a great exercise in itself for those involved, even if just in gaining or sharing different perspectives.

Thanks :)

[fnkngrv]

Appreciate the effort in response @pjft

Once this who thing about video snaps on the Zero gets hashed out I wouldn't mind assisting with updating the theme info for now.

[herb_fargus]

@fnkngrv I wasn't implying that you're an idiot by any means, so I apologise if it came off that way.

Rather it come back to the school of thought for development on retropie. I personally see the pi as a learning device for people to learn how to use Linux so the more steps we remove from that the less happier I am with it (and all the simplificity we have added has only enable people to rip it off with third party images and crappy builds on eBay)

But anyways as far as your request yes I agree that the video / theme stuff can be improved. I'm generally on top of documentation but there have been so many themes and ES updates that I've fallen behind. I don't really have the free time I used to maintain docs but the wiki is user editable so anyone can update it.

Video stuff and all that is still in the new/beta phase and when you add weaker hardware like the pi0 it gets a tad janky. So any improvements at the very least in the docs would be welcomed and perhaps we could come to some kind of solution for the downloader at some point

[fnkngrv]

@herb_fargus I understand. I was referencing the post after yours. Anywho, I can completely appreciate your stance and the need for a balance for sure. As I said, once my research gets hammered out on the who Pi Zero situation I'll see what I can do to assist with updating with my findings.

[pjft]

@fnkngrv I wouldn't read to much into @lilbud 's post. I can certainly see how this whole thread could have escalated quickly, but I read it only as a funny remark about "idiot proofing" in general, and not in any way labeling anyone in particular. More like "the moment you think everything is covered, you can be sure something new and unexpected will come up". That kind of thing.

It's hard to convey humor or the right intent with written word, but for the most part people here are friendly and sometimes quirky and good humored in their own way. So I usually try to take that interpretation most of the time, and I think it served me right most of the time. I know I have made a few failed attempts at humor in the past that came across the wrong way, so... Been there, done that, got the T-shirt :)

[lilbud]

@pjft Yes, I only intended it as a joke, if I offended anyone, I'm sorry.

[pjft]

@lilbud I assumed that would have been the case. I actually laughed while reading it at work :)

[fnkngrv]

appreciate clearing the air :-)