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    Multiple mice support in RetroArch cores (lightguns, spinners, trackballs)

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Ideas and Development
    micelightgunspinnersteering wheelmame
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    • markwkiddM
      markwkidd
      last edited by markwkidd

      A minor update. If you have a MAME 2003 core built from the latest source, you shouldn't have to manually configure the buttons on mice 2-8 any more.

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
      • markwkiddM
        markwkidd
        last edited by

        Knock on wood, but it seems like the latest github RetroArch + the latest github mame2003 core = multiple mice functionality! Thanks @mediamogul !

        mediamogulM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • mediamogulM
          mediamogul Global Moderator @markwkidd
          last edited by

          @markwkidd

          Thank you, sir. I was glad to help test. Once we get support for absolute coordinates, RetroArch and by extension RetroPie will be a one stop shop for all light gun setups. This was a big first step in that direction and it's great to see it working.

          RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

          markwkiddM edmaul69E 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • markwkiddM
            markwkidd @mediamogul
            last edited by markwkidd

            @mediamogul I was in contact with casdevel from the beginning of their work on multiple mice. Right now I think there is some forward momentum -- if we can get a well-described and logged Issue together regarding absolute vs. relative coordinates I feel like now is the time when help is available.

            I'm on Windows mostly this summer, but that is one of the platforms that casdevel has been supporting.

            Do you know of a test case -- core + ROM + hardware -- that illustrates the problem with absolute vs. relative coordinates?

            mediamogulM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • edmaul69E
              edmaul69 @mediamogul
              last edited by

              @mediamogul so is there any way of playing the nintendo light gun games with a mouse?

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              • mediamogulM
                mediamogul Global Moderator @markwkidd
                last edited by mediamogul

                @markwkidd

                if we can get a well-described and logged Issue together regarding absolute vs. relative coordinates I feel like now is the time when help is available.

                I would love to see this happen. Let me know how I can help.

                Do you know of a test case -- core + ROM + hardware -- that illustrates the problem with absolute vs. relative coordinates?

                I've tested with what I believe to be every core that has light gun support and currently none recognize absolute coordinates. If one core were to become the focus, I would suggest either lr-mame2003 to continue the work already done there, or perhaps lr-nestopia, as the NES was arguably the most popular home console light gun system.

                @edmaul69

                so is there any way of playing the nintendo light gun games with a mouse?

                If played with a standard desktop mouse, or just about any airmouse, lr-nestopia already has functional light gun support. NstDatabase.xml has to be installed at /home/pi/RetroPie/BIOS, which I thought it was by default, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere. Unfortunately, until RetroArch can register absolute coordinates, USB arcade guns and devices like the DolphinBar are left out in the cold.

                RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

                dankcushionsD edmaul69E markwkiddM 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • dankcushionsD
                  dankcushions Global Moderator @mediamogul
                  last edited by dankcushions

                  @mediamogul said in Multiple mice support in RetroArch cores (lightguns, spinners, steering wheels):

                  @markwkidd

                  if we can get a well-described and logged Issue together regarding absolute vs. relative coordinates I feel like now is the time when help is available.

                  I would love to see this happen. Let me know how I can help.

                  Do you know of a test case -- core + ROM + hardware -- that illustrates the problem with absolute vs. relative coordinates?

                  I've tested with what I believe to be every core that has light gun support and currently none recognize absolute coordinates. If one core were to become the focus, I would suggest either lr-mame2003 to continue the work already done there

                  mame2003 supports absolute coords, sort of. the trackpad on my macbook air is received by the cocoa (apple) input driver in retroarch as an absolute device (in retroarch/libretro's terms, a 'pointer'). in mame2003 i coded it to translate that to relative coordinates (if you select 'pointer' as you mouse device, which is a core option), as that's what mame's internal 'mouse' device needs. mame has some other devices ('lightgun', etc) that might be able to take absolute coordinates directly, if they were hooked up, i don't know, but there's no real need if my translation works.

                  now, retropie (and let's say raspbian, for this example), is different, because it uses the udev input driver by default. i set up a development build of mame2003 that logged all mouse and pointer coordinates coming in, and i had someone with an aimtrak lightgun give me a log. the problem seeme to be that the lightgun wasn't received by the udev input driver as a mouse OR a pointer, so it doesn't matter what the core does (and i'm fairly sure mame2003 would have worked if the udev driver had given it anything).

                  so, the issue becomes, in order:

                  1. does the OS (raspbian) see this device?
                  2. does it see it as a relative mouse device (and how do you test that?)
                  3. does the udev device manager see this device (as a relative mouse)?
                  4. does retroarch's udev driver see this device, and present it to the core as a pointer?
                  5. does the core understand pointers? (in the case of mame2003 - yes)

                  sorry for the lecture :)

                  mediamogulM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • mediamogulM
                    mediamogul Global Moderator @dankcushions
                    last edited by mediamogul

                    @dankcushions

                    sorry for the lecture

                    Not at all. It's great to get all this information. When I was testing my DolphinBar and Ultimarc arcade guns a week or two ago, I brought up evtest for the mouse event associated with the devices and each were recognized and the coordinates appeared to be reading normally. During that same testing session, I specified in lr-mame2003 that the mouse be a pointer device in the core options at your suggestion. Unfortunately, it still didn't produce any results. All that being the case, could it be that #4 on your potential issue list might be the road block?

                    Edit: At the very least, RetroArch does see the device, as the mouse buttons are recognized.

                    RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

                    dankcushionsD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • dankcushionsD
                      dankcushions Global Moderator @mediamogul
                      last edited by

                      @mediamogul said in Multiple mice support in RetroArch cores (lightguns, spinners, steering wheels):

                      @dankcushions

                      sorry for the lecture

                      Not at all. It's great to get all this information. When I was testing my DolphinBar and Ultimarc arcade guns a week or two ago, I brought up evtest for the mouse event associated with the devices and each were recognized and the coordinates appeared to be read normally. During that same testing session, I specified in lr-mame2003 that the mouse be a pointer device in the core options at your suggestion. Unfortunately, it still didn't produce any results. All that being the case, could it be that #4 on your potential issue list might be the road block?

                      Edit: At the very least, RetroArch does see the device, as the mouse buttons are recognized.

                      hmm, interesting! i would have thought that the new multiple-mice changes would have affected it. eg, i guess the pointer device would need to assigned to player 1 through retroarch.

                      i think it's worth re-testing with the latest nightlies, pointer device set to player 1, mame2003 core option set to 'pointer', and if that doesn't work i could issue my debug build again?

                      mediamogulM 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • mediamogulM
                        mediamogul Global Moderator @dankcushions
                        last edited by

                        @dankcushions

                        i think it's worth re-testing with the latest nightlies, pointer device set to player 1, mame2003 core option set to 'pointer', and if that doesn't work i could issue my debug build again?

                        Sounds like a plan. I'll test everything again this evening. Thanks.

                        RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • mediamogulM
                          mediamogul Global Moderator @dankcushions
                          last edited by mediamogul

                          @dankcushions

                          I went ahead and tested the arcade guns with the latest nightlies, pointer device set to player 1 and mame2003 core option set to 'pointer', but there was still no joy in mudville.

                          RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

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                          • edmaul69E
                            edmaul69 @mediamogul
                            last edited by edmaul69

                            @mediamogul so my problem was i was setting the p2 device to light gun and not mouse. However, the vs games are in the nstdatabase xml file but they wont even do anything. Did you get them working?

                            mediamogulM 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • mediamogulM
                              mediamogul Global Moderator @edmaul69
                              last edited by

                              @edmaul69

                              However, the vs games are in the nstdatabase xml file but the wont even do anything. Did you get them working?

                              I have the games installed, but I don't believe I've tried them. I'll give them a go later and let you know.

                              RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • mediamogulM
                                mediamogul Global Moderator @edmaul69
                                last edited by mediamogul

                                @edmaul69

                                They don't work for me either. I suppose the set we have doesn't match up with the hash checks from NstDatabase.xml. Seeing as how there's only three VS light gun games, editing the data wouldn't take long. However, a better option is probably to just use AdvanceMame for now so you could also make use of your DolphinBar.

                                RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

                                edmaul69E 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • edmaul69E
                                  edmaul69 @mediamogul
                                  last edited by

                                  @mediamogul yeah, i have to install advmame roms still. Would still love to have the nes light gun games fully functional one day....

                                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • markwkiddM
                                    markwkidd @mediamogul
                                    last edited by

                                    so is there any way of playing the nintendo light gun games with a mouse?

                                    If played with a standard desktop mouse, or just about any airmouse, lr-nestopia already has functional light gun support. NstDatabase.xml has to be installed at /home/pi/RetroPie/BIOS, which I thought it was by default, but I can't find any mention of it anywhere.

                                    NstDatabase.xmlindeed should be installed in the BIOS directory by default, per this commit to RetroPie-Setup: https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/commit/a5bb24c11fe87bfc41d8b53797b724aa161a8689

                                    mediamogulM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • mediamogulM
                                      mediamogul Global Moderator @markwkidd
                                      last edited by

                                      @markwkidd

                                      Ah, good to know.

                                      RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

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                                      • markwkiddM
                                        markwkidd
                                        last edited by markwkidd

                                        As I said before I'm hoping to gather the information necessary for RetroArch emulators to support both 'absolute' and 'relative' devices.

                                        Somehow I'm still confused about how to create the best Issue report with regard to this concern.

                                        Could someone please spell out to me:

                                        1. What devices are categorized as 'relative' and what devices are categorized as 'absolute'?
                                        2. Which cores require 'relative' devices and which require 'absolute' devices?
                                        mediamogulM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • mediamogulM
                                          mediamogul Global Moderator @markwkidd
                                          last edited by mediamogul

                                          @markwkidd

                                          What devices are categorized as 'relative' and what devices are categorized as 'absolute'?

                                          Just about any traditional mouse, airmouse or trackball will use relative coordinates. Touchscreens, trackpads and USB light guns all use absolute coordinates.

                                          Which cores require 'relative' devices and which require 'absolute' devices?

                                          The list of relative and absolute devices above could be used to determine that fully, but absolute coordinates would certainly need to be supported in any core that already has relative support for light gun games in order to add support for the available USB gun devices on the market. Those cores include, but may not be limited to lr-nestopia, lr-snes9x2010, lr-genesis-plus-gx, as well as all the MAME cores.

                                          RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • S
                                            space invader
                                            last edited by

                                            So with this update would be possible to play, for example, marble madness with two mices?

                                            mediamogulM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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