Is it Legal to use an arcade machine running retropie, put it in a public place and charge quarters to use it?

Clyde

@lurker said in Is it Legal to use an arcade machine running retropie, put it in a public place and charge quarters to use it?:

"If you are worried about it then you probably shouldn't do it."

Nice one, I'd add "or, if you decide to do it anyway, take eventual consequences with equanimity (i.e. don't bother the world with endless complains about its unfairness)." ;)

benjaminjay

What about "e-sports" arenas and similar places that run mix of current gen consoles and PCs? Wouldn't this be illegal too?

Lurker

@benjaminjay said in Is it Legal to use an arcade machine running retropie, put it in a public place and charge quarters to use it?:

What about "e-sports" arenas and similar places that run mix of current gen consoles and PCs? Wouldn't this be illegal too?

I'm not sure what specific business licensing arrangements the e-sports or game cafes may have but it may be similar to stage theaters. If you what to put on a play, the scripts are readily available but you have to pay for the rights to perform the play. Back in High School I was the director for a 1 act play along with a couple other student directors. We decided on "The actors Nightmare" and we had to pay $110 for just the rights to perform it.

One thing that stands out for "e-sports" arenas and game cafe's that you can see without going into paper work is that they have purchased each console and copies of games for each system. By doing this they have purchased multiple licenses of the systems and games being played.

You can see how this begins to fall under the "rental" model. But I can skip the details of the legality on how you can rent a game to others and go right back to the user not owning the roms they will load on the Retropie.

The two biggest items to the "Can I build an arcade and charge people to use it?" idea is;

You do not own the roms or a use license for that rom.
The software that is running the rom (retropie and the specific emulator) is open source and has its own restrictions and limitations to commercialization. (see all the above thread)

benjaminjay

@lurker The general consensus I have gathered from establishments utilizing consoles and PCs for gaming thus far is that the respective hardware and software companies don't really enforce their restrictions. Obviously this may be totally different regarding emulators, but if they aren't actively concerned about their current generation products being used in a commercial setting, would they really spend their resources on pursuing violations regarding their older products?

Loggahead

@lurker said in Is it Legal to use an arcade machine running retropie, put it in a public place and charge quarters to use it?:

You do not own the roms or a use license for that rom.
The software that is running the rom (retropie and the specific emulator) is open source and has its own restrictions and limitations to commercialization. (see all the above thread)

I'm not looking to do this any of this but find this topic interesting. Out of curiosity, what about the Jamma multi-in-one boards? I saw a store in a mall that sells pool tables, pinball machines, and arcade machines. Their arcade machines were all various forms of 64-in-1, 16-in-1, etc etc. and seemed to be set up for commercial use. Are those actually licensed versions of those games and able to be used in this way? Does it depend on the board? I dunno... just curious.

Clyde

@loggahead Either they licensed the games or their products are illegal in many countries. Whereas I think it's more probable that a 16-in-1 machine is licensed than one of those x-thousands-in-ones.

Loggahead

@clyde said in Is it Legal to use an arcade machine running retropie, put it in a public place and charge quarters to use it?:

Whereas I think it's more probable that a 16-in-1 machine is licensed than one of those x-thousands-in-ones.

I was thinking that too. I wonder how someone would even know? you know? Most people would probably buy something like a multi-in-one and not even think that about it's legality and then possibly find themselves in a pickle. Interesting...

Clyde

@loggahead Yes, as interesting as it is that even big players like Amazon and eBay have these most likely illegal products on their marketplaces.

As for how you can know? Well, you can't ultimately, but you can ask the vendors or manufacturers about it. If they assure you that their products are licensed correctly, at least you could show that to anyone who might ask you about your purchase.

Lurker

@Loggahead and @Clyde I am of the same mind that the 10s in 1 boards are more likely licensed to be produced and the 1000s in 1 are more likely less on the level. The tell in most cases are how many different companies are represented in the game list. Sega or NeoGeo can offer a large number of game titles to the manufacturer of one board and the deal would be one umbrella license. Or you may notice certain titles missing that are under some exclusive agreement that has not lapsed yet. But if you see Sega and Nintendo in the same machine (as an example) using Nintendo and Sega because I am not well versed in who owes what major arcade names The chances something is not 100% legit goes up fast.

It is like that in all sorts of things. Notice you will rarely see soda vending machines offer Coke AND Pepsi at the same time.

Everything does get a lot trickier when you start dealing with much older and more easily reproduced items like custom boards and retro games. It often times becomes a chain of you did your best to ensure everything is legit and so you are trusting the company you buy from has done their part and so on back to the copyright holder. In the event of a legal complaint it becomes a hot potato game of "did you cover your butt?"

I haven't looked but I wonder if the copyright and trademark of Pacman is still even owned or if made it is close to entering the public domain for the US...

Takes a moment to check

Yup thanks to Disney's efforts to hold onto the Mouse the common expiration for copyright of the first games has not even come due yet. Of course there will be exceptions for games that were never copyrighted or someone screwed up.

@benjaminjay I agree that most game cafe's and such don't do their full due diligence in terms of having full legal right to do everything they do. Enforcement , awareness and risk are all factors for that as well. And that is a big and tricky part of the total picture which is why I tend to distance myself from weighing in on it. I try to keep my input on the objective technical bit.

Is it legal? That we can discuss easily and evenly and even come to a definitive conclusion. Ya @Loggahead I find it interesting too while having no plans to do so myself.

Can I get away with it? That is more subjective and not everyone's compass will point the same way. Dicier, but can still be a worth while conversation if everyone involved in the conversation can keep a level head.

Should I do (insert morally questionable action here)? That's the hot button. And I try to keep my distance from them as the opinions to that answer and justification for the answer can be wild, emotional and greatly varied.

Clyde

@lurker said in Is it Legal to use an arcade machine running retropie, put it in a public place and charge quarters to use it?:

It is like that in all sorts of things. Notice you will rarely see soda vending machines offer Coke AND Pepsi at the same time.

Well said. :)

@benjaminjay I agree that most game cafe's and such don't do their full due diligence in terms of having full legal right to do everything they do.

I can tell, as my return to the emulation scene after many years of hibernation was triggerd by an obviously custom made MAME cocktail table in a German craft beer bar in Winter 2016. Now, I have a self-made upright cabinet in my living room. Damn those bar operators! ;) (and the "good friend" who led us there)