Mazan: Flash of the Blade (Naomi)
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@g30ff Tried that, and still get no response from mouse or gun.
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@drdave79 Hey, while I guess not technically a lightgun game in the traditional sense, you can get Mazan to work in the version of lr-flycast currently used by RetroPie with a Sinden gun in the following way.
- Activate your Sinden gun before starting the game
- Have the trigger mapped to "Gun Trigger" and your preferred coin and start buttons to "Gun Select" and "Gun Aux A," respectively
- Set port 1 to controller in the RetroArch menu, and have a controller with clickable analog sticks available to use
- In Quick Menu -> Options, turn on player 1's lightgun crosshairs
- Let the game do its sensor check upon boot
- Click the left stick (L3) to enter the service mode after the attract mode starts playing
- Use the controller's D-pad to navigate to I/O Test, and press the retropad B button to enter
- Use the controller's D-pad to navigate to Sword Adjustment. Leave the cursor there, and go back to the RA menu to switch the port 1 type to "Light Gun." If you enter the test before switching to "Light Gun," you will end up skipping one of the calibration points.
- Pull the trigger to enter the test. Follow the directions. The crosshairs help with lining up the boxes with your aim.
- Once done calibrating, switch back to controller in RA menu so that you can select "Save & Exit" and then exit the service menu
- At this point, the calibration should be written and saved, so you can switch back to lightgun controls and go about playing as usual
Note that the sword will likely be shaky and stuck in a horizontal "stabbing" position, but it should move about pretty accurately. I have never played this game on an actual cabinet, so I suspect the sensors did allow you to move the sword at angles not allowed by the emulator's lightgun controls.
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@chaoseffect Your instructions were spot on. Thank you so much. Yes, very shaky, but playable somewhat. I really appreciate you breaking it down for me!
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@drdave79 Awesome! I'm glad it's working for you now.
The gun is limited to X and Y movement because it's more or less just a mouse with a camera and some keyboard keys built in, so I figure something like a Wii remote would be needed to take full advantage of the controls (if the emulator even supports the Z movement).
It's the same issue with Power Glove games. A Sinden gun seems perfect for everything except the Z-axis movement in/out of the screen for those.
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@chaoseffect ok, I did not expect to read a thread about this.
I actually looked into this in the past but was never fully satisfied with the outcome and ended up stopping it.
Indeed, the game used two sensors for depth, to recognize the angle of the sword. I recall trying to work something out when getting the Sinden lightgun, and I think I was fairly happy with where left it back then:
https://github.com/pjft/flycast/tree/mazan
If you want to compile it and install it, you'll find that the controls make the game playable. I think I married different functions to the two buttons, I think I made one of them perform a horizontal parry where you're aiming, and the default angle for the gun was better.
I don't recall if it needs to recalibrate the gun - I would advise not, but I can share my nvram files that probably have the configuration for the sensors done.
If anyone wants to try it out and see if it helps, happy to help. I think that's the right branch but this was over a year ago so I can't promise that that's correct.
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@pjft This is very interesting! Thanks for that! I will try installing it to see the differences. Do you have a summary of what is different with Mazan in your version? Are the button assignments for changing the blade angle hard coded or assigned to RetroArch buttons that I can change?
There is also the upstream lr-flycast which RetroPie used for a brief period before reverting to the older version from which yours is forked. I have that newer version installed too as "lr-flycast-new" for a few games here and there that benefit from it. I will check Mazan in that version also.
The game "Gun Survivor 2" is another one I have been curious about. It is 100% NOT a lightgun game. It used a rotary joystick with a gun mounted on top. You move the joystick to move forward, backward, and side to side, and you turn the head of the joystick (the gun) to turn left and right. I am curious if it is still possible to map the turning movement to the lightgun's X axis.
I am also known as "StormedBubbles"
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@chaoseffect Interesting. I wasn't aware of lr-flycast-new - it's been a while since I last looked at the code.
Correct, the main differences are for the sword position not to be stabbing all the time. I think that "button 1" in the lightgun would set it to parry position, and "button 2" would set it to stabbing position.
It's been a while, but I think that those were the main changes. It's all remappable in RetroArch, correct.
What I don't know is if it expects you to have mapped the sword first in "normal" mode (as it is right now), or if you can map it afterwards - perhaps the "stabbing" angle can make it work in that regard. The thing is that the calibration screen will detect the two sensors, so I'm imagining that if you re-calibrate it with the changed sword, you'll go back to having it stabbing by default, which was not what we wanted.
I'll be honest, I did think that it made the sword control more "realistic", so do give it a shot. I think that what made it "less fun" than what I thought it would is that waving the sword very quickly left and right would easily damage the enemies - something that's easier to pull off with a lightgun but that would probably have been hard with the original sword controller. I think that was what made me think "huh, the concept is great, but playing it with a lightgun/mouse isn't quite the same".
Let me know if you need help in compiling it but I imagine that, worst case scenario, you can adjust the lr-flycast.sh script on RetroPie-Setup to reference my repository and branch.
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@chaoseffect Ah, I now re-read what you wrote.
Correct, then you know how to make this happen :D Yes, I have this one installed as lr-flycast-mazan or lr-flycast-pjft .
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@pjft The upstream lr-flycast is built from here:
https://github.com/flyinghead/flycast
The RetroPie setup script went to this version briefly before a handful of issues were found. You can still find the installation script for the newer version on the RetroPie-setup GitHub page. It's not just a simple swap of URL for this particular installation.
Notable changes include the ability to play 2 players with 2 lightguns in Ninja Assault, better control mapping for Gun Survivor 2, and the addition of WinCE support on Raspberry Pi. I experience some performance issues on a Pi 4B with the newer version, so I only currently use it for Ninja Assault (no issues) and WinCE games.
Speaking of that, if you happen to try the newer version of lr-flycast and try out Virtua Cop 2, there's a bizarre glitch where lightgun controls cause the game to pause briefly every time the trigger is pulled. The regular controller mode does not experience the same issue. This is by far the best way to play any Virtua Cop game on a Raspberry Pi, but no one has been able to isolate the exact issue yet. It only happens in the libretro Flycast (seemingly all platforms) and not the standalone Flycast. If you experience the issue and can provide any insight, you'll be a hero! 😄
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@chaoseffect Hah, interesting.
What was the issue with two guns Ninja Assault? I'm fairly confident I had it working on my end back in the day. What was the issue?
That being said, Virtua Cop 2 is definitely an interesting development. Is it for 32-bit or 64-bit only?
I am tempted, after I finish what I'm working on lr-fbneo now and have some free time to look into it. That being said, it might be RetroArch related, but I'll see. Is it only on WinCE games?
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@pjft Ninja Assault doesn't have the second player's lightgun controls hooked up to any RetroArch controls in the latest version of the older lr-flycast (the one currently used by RetroPie). In addition to that, that particular game used some non-standard Naomi controls which made mapping player 1 confusing. The upstream lr-flycast resolved both of those issues.
I use a 32-bit RetroPie setup on a Pi 4B and am able to launch WinCE games with the upstream lr-flycast. I assume it also works with 64-bit systems.
Virtua Cop 2 has two versions on Dreamcast. One was a standalone release in Japan, and the other was part of the Sega Smash Pack in the USA. In order to launch the USA version, you may have to set the "Force WinCE mode" to ON. They both have that lightgun/freeze problem outlined in that issue I opened on GitHub. Unfortunately, Virtua Cop 2 is the only lightgun WinCE game 😅. The issue does appear to be RetroArch related because it is not present in the standalone Flycast emulator. The issue is also not isolated to Raspberry Pi.
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I just tested your branch of lr-flycast. That works great! Yes, the sword is in a more natural position by default and goes into the horizontal "block" position if you move towards the top of the screen. You hold down "Gun Aux A" (which doubles as the start button) in order to enter the "stabbing" position. I did not have to re-calibrate. Thanks!
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@chaoseffect Ah, nice to hear.
So, if I understand correctly, using Aux A would allow the player to calibrate the gun correctly in order to then play the game like this.
Do have a play with it and report back. If you (or more folks) do feel that it does help the game, I'll happily submit the changes to lr-flycast. The reason I hadn't done so is because they technically felt like kind of a "hack" that was helping me, but without anyone testing and also confirming that it helped, I didn't feel confident enough in sending it upstream.
Thank you for the time. @Drdave79 and others, do join in. The more folks testing this (and making sure it doesn't break anything), the more I can have some data to suggest that this might be a worthy addition to the emulator.
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@ChaosEffect by the way, would you test Ninja Assault 2 guns in my version of the emulator? I don't quite know the state of it in regards to Ninja Assault - I recall raising an issue with Ninja Assault at the time to flyinghead as we were missing a dynarec32 instruction that caused the game to crash partway through the first level, but I never seem to recall the second player not working. I want to believe I would have tested that, but maybe I was wrong.
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@pjft I don't think that that older version of lr-flycast is maintained anymore. The code base was moved to the upstream GitHub repository I linked earlier, and the older version was left unchanged (I think because some lower-powered platforms like Raspberry Pi benefit from it). However, Mazan behaves the same way in upstream lr-flycast, so any changes could probably be submitted there.
I calibrated in both the vanilla old lr-flycast and your branch, and I think the experience was better after using the calibration from the vanilla version.
Is it possible to separate the "Start" function from the "chop/stab" action? Currently, in your branch, they are both mapped to "Gun Aux A." If it's possible to separate the two, I think the Start function should be mapped to "Gun Start," while the chop should remain at "Gun Aux A."
Ninja Assault behaves the same way in your branch as it does in the current version of the old lr-flycast. The mappings are:
P1 Trigger = Gun Aux A
P1 Start = Gun Aux BUpstream lr-flycast moves those functions to "Gun Trigger" and "Gun Start" for both players. The P1 Coin function is mapped to "Gun Select" in all versions, and there appears to be no P2 Coin function in any version of the emulator.
There is no P2 Start button at all in vanilla old lr-flycast or your branch.
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@chaoseffect I see.
I don't really know much about the button mapping - the changes I made were based on the button mapping that the game had in the emulator, I did not change anything there. Thanks for the feedback on the calibration not yielding the same results - that's too bad.
As I said, I really stopped looking into this back in late 2020, so I don't really envision going back to this anytime soon - especially with the codebase being different. I could consider submitting the current code for approval - adapting it to the new codebase, of course - but if it would still benefit from some changes I'd probably hold off on that until I get some time and focus on this again and make some of those adjustments.
Still, I hope this at least helps you and others enjoy the game a bit better for now!
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@pjft Your branch definitely makes the experience better. Thanks so much! Sinden users can block attacks in your branch 😃
Among "old" lr-flycast, your branch, and "new/upstream" lr-flycast, it seems that all lightgun and lightgun-like games are supported now, one way or another. Extreme Hunting 2 fails to load due to a network-board issue, but that can be circumvented by using the conversion to Dreamcast that someone recently made. That Virtua Cop 2 issue seems to be the only thing hindering the playability of any true lightgun game.
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@chaoseffect Sounds good. I may have a look at the Virtua Cop 2 issue, just out of curiosity at some point. I wouldn't consider myself more knowledgeable about this than flyinghead or any of the RetroArch folks, though, so... :)
To confirm:
- It happens on lr-flycast with a lightgun (actual device, or even when using a mouse and selecting "Lightgun" as RetroArch input?);
- it doesn't happen on vanilla flycast (can we install it on the Pi? Is it installable via RetroPie-Setup?)
Just so I can hone in on the specifics when I look into it.
Thanks!
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@pjft said in Mazan: Flash of the Blade (Naomi):
it doesn't happen on vanilla flycast (can we install it on the Pi? Is it installable via RetroPie-Setup?)
It can be installed, but it's not part of RetroPie-Setup yet.
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@pjft First, you will need to install lr-flycast (upstream) separately from the old lr-flycast by using this script.
On my system, I changed all references of "lr-flycast" to "lr-flycast-new" in the linked script so that the two versions can co-exist.
Here are the things I have confirmed with Virtua Cop 2 in "lr-flycast-new" on a Raspberry Pi 4B:
- The game will freeze briefly on any trigger pull by a player whose control type is set to "Lightgun."
- The freeze occurs regardless of whether it's a Sinden gun or a regular mouse, so it does not appear to be a hardware problem
- When the control type is set to "Controller," the freeze does not occur for that player's trigger pulls. I tested with one player using a lightgun and the other using a controller. Only the lightgun player's trigger pulls cause the freeze
And here are some things that I have heard but have not confirmed myself:
- The issue does NOT occur in the current version of the standalone (non-libretro) Flycast
- The issue DOES occur in "lr-flycast-new" on non-pi platforms
I am also known as "StormedBubbles"
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