lr-mame2003 rom specific rotation + aspect issues

esmith13

So, after googl-ing a bit, it seems the following fixes my issues in general, but the aspect may be off on a game-to-game basis. (most of these games with monitors in the vertical orientation were not exactly 3:4 ratio)

video_allow_rotate = "true"
video_rotation = "1"
aspect_ratio_index = "19"
video_aspect_ratio_auto = "false"
video_aspect_ratio = "1.33"

I guess now I just need to figure out how to find the proper ratio for each individual game? Is there a database for this info somewhere?

caver01

@esmith13 The config lines at which you arrived is similar to how I have a lot of my vertical titles setup with per-rom .cfg files. As for the AR, you are also dealing with PAR (Pixel-Aspect Ratio). In other words, a given resolution may have been used to create the game, but in practice, it was expect that the image would be stretched to fill an arcade monitor. In such cases, the image would not have been displayed with square pixels. This is what you are emulating with the AR like you have above: aspect_ratio_index = "19" , video_aspect_ratio_auto = "false", video_aspect_ratio = "1.33"

I suppose different arcade game manufactures could include details in each system's respective manuals about how to tune the monitor, but most of the time the image was expanded using the monitor adjustments to fill the screen. That made most games fill a 4:3 or 3:4 aspect ratio, depending on the rotation. If there's a rule of thumb, 4:3 / 3:4 is probably it. It may not apply to every game, but looking up the AR online might merely give you the ratio of the resolution assuming square pixels.

dankcushions

you shouldn't have to tweak aspect ratios - mame2003 already outputs the correct ratio. let me have a play with the settings...

esmith13

@caver01
Thanks very much for the info! I remember reading a very detailed system-specific post about PAR and DAR. It was geared mainly to consoles and then also grouped arcade systems like NeoGeo and CPS1-2-3. Was that you?

dankcushions

@dankcushions said in lr-mame2003 rom specific rotation + aspect issues:

you shouldn't have to tweak aspect ratios - mame2003 already outputs the correct ratio. let me have a play with the settings...

i looked into this. mame2003 is supplying the right aspect ratio, but when you use allow_video_rotate = false it displays the image in the original rotated format (correct), but uses the aspect ratio from the non-rotated format (wrong).

ie, it displays a ~3:4 image as 4:3. this to me is a retroarch problem, and i will log an issue with them, and maybe try to fix it myself. IMO there should be no reason to manually tweak aspect ratios for mame games since it has all that information within the software.

esmith13

@dankcushions
Yes! You understand the issue. I was in the process of taking pics to show you. I'll post them here anyway in case others who read need a visual reference to understand the issue.

The pictures are taken of a 16:9 display with pink post-it notes used to mark the original (no CFG file changes) rendered screen area.

This is with no CFG changes at all:

This is with the single CFG line: allow_video_rotate = false

This is with the CFG changes I found via Google that @caver01 and I have discussed:

esmith13

SPECIAL BONUS!!! :-)

Attached is a zip file containing ROM specific configs for every ROM originally meant to be vertically orientated in mame2003 / v0.78 (excluding mahjong and quiz ROMS - list compliments of ROMLister).
Anyone, who like me, uses a screen that you can rotate 90 degrees clockwise to maximize the size of vertical orientated ROM, can drop these CFG files in to their roms\mame-libretro folder and you're all set. (I LOVE batch file magic)

DropBox: RetroPie Vert Orient Configs (mame2003 v0.78).zip

For those who want to find a monitor specifically for retro gaming use, I highly recommend the Dell 1907FP which is a 4:3 LCD Monitor that can rotate 90 degrees and optionally have a monitor-powered sound bar added with headphone plug connection. Dell 1907FP image link

caver01

@esmith13 said in lr-mame2003 rom specific rotation + aspect issues:

Dell 1907FP image link

I have that very monitor and it's nice. It has a sharp screen and you can attach a DVI-HDMI adapter. It also has a built-in USB hub which is very handy.

One thing worth mentioning about that monitor is that the native resolution is 1280x1024. This is the same resolution I run on my arcade cabinet and I like it a lot, but it's not 4:3. It's 5:4 which is SO CLOSE to 4:3 you can still get a way with filling the screen and you don't really notice the slight distortion. This resolution is great for getting a nice, clean CRT shader effect, but the AR is one of the reasons I get very specific in my per-rom .cfg files. It's also a great display for vector games at native resolution (AdvanceMAME).

dankcushions

@esmith13 you might have already solved this through .cfgs, but i've coded a 'TATE Mode' for lr-mame2003.

update from source (this takes about 30 mins)
follow the instructions here: https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/wiki/lr-mame2003#tate-mode

it will mean no custom cfgs required - just change the per-emulator settings as i describe.

esmith13

@dankcushions
I appreciate you doing this and i love that it prevents the scaling from being off slightly but unfortunately after testing it I still can't make use of it.
While I admit in this day and age it's rare to find a monitor that can rotate at all in the first place it is even more rare to find one that rotates 90 degrees in BOTH directions (90 clockwise and 90 counter-clockwise from landscape/default) for a full 180 degrees of rotation. Using the mode you added of course makes the games show as they were originally designed but apparently their was never a standard as to which short edge of the display is "up".
For example, 1942 would require a 90 degree counter-clockwise rotation whereas ms. pacman requires a 90 degree clockwise rotation. I also assume since you must set allow_video_rotate to false, I can't manually rotate some of them 180 degrees so they all require a 90 degree clockwise rotation from landscape. I know this would require some cfg files again but at least the aspect ratio would be as intended unlike my original "fix".

If you have any other suggestions please let me know and thanks much for looking in to this whole thing in the first place.

dankcushions

@esmith13 said in lr-mame2003 rom specific rotation + aspect issues:

For example, 1942 would require a 90 degree counter-clockwise rotation whereas ms. pacman requires a 90 degree clockwise rotation. I also assume since you must set allow_video_rotate to false, I can't manually rotate some of them 180 degrees so they all require a 90 degree clockwise rotation from landscape. I know this would require some cfg files again but at least the aspect ratio would be as intended unlike my original "fix".

hmm, damn! i think the best thing you could do is use allow_video_rotate = false and the tate mode setting as your default, and then per-game cfgs for all the ones that rotate 180 degrees like

allow_video_rotate = "true"
video_rotation = "3"

(or maybe it's easier to do it for the ones that rotate 90 degrees, but you get the idea)

at least it's a slightly shorter cfg :)

EDIT: i'm not entirely sure if this works or not, but i think it should with the tate mode on at all times. hmm, not sure!!

caver01

I will add to what @esmith13 is saying by confirming that my rom-specific rotation settings are mostly consistent, but do vary depending on the ROM to rotate CW or CCW.

Also, this is useful for more than just those folks with displays that can rotate. My display is fixed/mounted and doesn't rotate, but because my cabinet is a 3-sided cocktail, I play all vertical games from control panels on the vertical ends. So, in this situation, I still want to have the game fill the screen like folks who can rotate their display. In other words, we are effectively the same. I say it because the audience for this effect isn't just limited to people with rotating displays.

esmith13

No worries dankcushions. I really do appreciate it! Even tho I still need cfg files (for a portion of them, although I now have to hand create a list of which ones need configs!!) the aspect ratio/scaling is more accurate your way so I still consider your solution superior even if technically more work.

Thank you again!!

dankcushions

@caver01 said in lr-mame2003 rom specific rotation + aspect issues:

I will add to what @esmith13 is saying by confirming that my rom-specific rotation settings are mostly consistent, but do vary depending on the ROM to rotate CW or CCW.

Also, this is useful for more than just those folks with displays that can rotate. My display is fixed/mounted and doesn't rotate, but because my cabinet is a 3-sided cocktail, I play all vertical games from control panels on the vertical ends. So, in this situation, I still want to have the game fill the screen like folks who can rotate their display. In other words, we are effectively the same. I say it because the audience for this effect isn't just limited to people with rotating displays.

oh interesting! i did consider cocktail cabinets but i figured they would have controls only at one side. i didn't consider you could have cloned controls on 3. that's neat! hmm, maybe it needs renaming from TATE Mode but i can't think what to.

esmith13

Perhaps something along the lines of one of the following?:
mame2003-native_orientation
mame2003-native_orient
mame2003-orient_native
mame2003-orientation_native
mame2003-native_rotation
mame2003-factory_rotation

caver01

@dankcushions said in lr-mame2003 rom specific rotation + aspect issues:

maybe it needs renaming from TATE Mode but i can't think what to.

No need to overthink it. It's actually a nice enhancement, and even if it serves as a default that covers most but not all titles, it can still reduce the need for custom configs for every vertical ROM.

My situation is further complicated by the fact that my display is 5:4 (1280x1024). Normally, I might just let RetroArch figure out the AR for me, but I don't mind a little "stretch" within reason. I run the CRT shader, so I like that I can get it to fill the screen and eek out a few more pixels. I guess I am saying, I might end up with a custom configs anyway.

As for the 3-sided controls, they aren't actually cloned--I can play 4-player games like Gauntlet, or X-men, or use all four joysticks for 2-player SmashTV etc.!

RandoCalrisian

Where does one save "per rom" cfgs?

esmith13

@RandoCalrisian
In the ROM folder right next to the ROM it is for.

Example:

/home/pi/RetroPie/roms/mame-libretro/pacman.zip
/home/pi/RetroPie/roms/mame-libretro/pacman.zip.cfg

Note the config file is named {romname.zip}.cfg

Settings in this config will override settings in the other various configs but only for the ROM its name matches.

RandoCalrisian

@esmith13 said in lr-mame2003 rom specific rotation + aspect issues:

@RandoCalrisian
In the ROM folder right next to the ROM it is for.

Example:

/home/pi/RetroPie/roms/mame-libretro/pacman.zip
/home/pi/RetroPie/roms/mame-libretro/pacman.zip.cfg

Note the config file is named {romname.zip}.cfg

Settings in this config will override settings in the other various configs but only for the ROM its name matches.

Excellent, thanks for the response. I JUST figured this out too, as a result of setting options in "runcommand", then seeing a file manifest itself.

To add to this, I'll say the only way I've gotten desired results, is using custom configs.
Enabling tate messes with the aspect ratio, but doesn't rotate the game.
Enabling tate and setting allow rotate to false messes with the aspect ratio, and still doesn't rotate the game.

esmith13

@RandoCalrisian
Enabling Tate and setting allow rotate to false does work if done in global configs. Certain configs override certain others . Just the same certain configs can be overridden by others. Tate mode enable should be in global. Allow rotate false should be in mame2003 core options config. That worked for me.
Of course you must update lr-mame2003 from source first and make sure you are in fact using mame2003 not mame4all or advmame, etc...