Can an Original Pi Model B Cope with Retropie?

jamesbeat

I have a Retropie console hooked up to my TV, but many of the systems I like to use are computer based rather than console based, and these work better with a monitor and keyboard rather than a TV and controller.

I have a small case from an old UPS, and it occurred to me that I could make another small Retropie box out of it.
I plan to put everything inside the box so it's a self-contained unit; PSU, hub, Pi and a DB-9 joystick interface.

I also have an original Pi Model B - the very first Pi.

It's at a relative's house at the moment, so I can't simply try it out to see if it will work well with Retropie. I'm going to try to get it back over the weekend.

The emulators I want to run are:

BBC Micro
ZX Spectrum
Amstrad CPC
Commodore 64
Atari ST

I tried searching, but there don't seem to be many people using the original Pi for Retropie.
Will my Model B cope with this?

If not, should I consider a Zero?

meleu

@jamesbeat are you talking about this one?: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/model-b/

Neer tried the enulators you wa t, but I'm used to use it to play NES, SNES, and MegaDrive games.

jamesbeat

@meleu said in Can an Original Pi Model B Cope with Retropie?:

@jamesbeat are you talking about this one?: https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/model-b/

Neer tried the enulators you wa t, but I'm used to use it to play NES, SNES, and MegaDrive games.

Nope, the model before that one!
It's the original model. It was called the Model B when I bought it, but it appears they have started calling it the Model 1 now.
I was an early adopter, so it's one of the first ones ever made.
I had to buy it from an eBay scalper because they couldn't keep up with demand.
I guess I'll just go and pick it up and try it. It's quite a trek though, so I was hoping to avoid driving all the way over there without even knowing if it will be powerful enough.

masteryoer

The original raspberry pi model ? The one with 512 ram? Yes it can do Retropie but not n64 and it needs to be overclocked to 950 to play most snes games correctly.

jamesbeat

One might argue that no Pi is capable of emulating the N64 :D

I'm not bothered about consoles. Like I said, I already have a Retropie box hooked up to my tv for that

As long as it's capable of Atari ST and below, it will do what I want for this application.

NastyButtler322

@jamesbeat Yeah. It will work. You won't get to play with all of the emulators offered, but I imagine anything that released before Sega 32x would play well. I would even test better stuff just to see. Doesn't hurt to try it out.

Sorry, just noticed your list of emulators. I expect it would play those no problem because of their simplicity. But, I don't really know for certain.

jamesbeat

@NastyButtler322

That's encouraging, and certainly worth the drive over to collect it then.

The machines listed in my first post are the only ones I'm interested in running on this particular box.

I've been using emulators for a long time, and I have come to the conclusion that the experience is better when you use controls and displays of the same format that the original machine was designed for.

In this case, I want my computer based emulators running on a smaller monitor that I sit close to, and have a keyboard/mouse/joystick.

Playing these systems on my main retropie console on my tv doesn't work as well.

Another example is MAME - I don't have it installed on my console.
Those games are designed to be played on a cabinet, so I built a cabinet, and that is how I play arcade games.

My ideal setup will be a computer monitor/keyboard/mouse/joystick for my computer emulators, my console/tv/gamepad for console emulators, and my cabinet for MAME.

This box for computers only is the last piece of the puzzle.

NastyButtler322

@jamesbeat Thats pretty cool. I think you should be good to play any of those. I've been thinking about doing a joystick for the pi as well. I'm thinking about 3D printing the handle and attaching it to a PlayStation style analog module that came in my arduino kit, and program it and a few buttons to interface with the pi. That will take a while though.

What are you using to convert the connection for the joy stick? I think I'd rather do that instead lollol

jamesbeat

@NastyButtler322
I still have my original Atari-compatible joystick, so I just hacked a usb gamepad into an adapter.

Here's a good article explaining how to do it: http://www.vilminko.net/henri/projview.php?id=19&lang=en

The Important thing to note is that you must use a gamepad with a common ground for the hack.
Some controllers use a separate ground for up and right iirc, and those can present problems.

Drakaen391

On my Pi B I can run nearly everything except a couple PS games, and I can not play N64 games

jamesbeat

I discovered yesterday that one can simply walk into micro center and buy a Pi Zero, so I did that instead.
If I had known I could buy one retail and have it in my hand the same day, I wouldn't even have considered using my old one.

I didn't realize about the lack of analog audio though.

I need analog audio out because I'm using a DVI monitor with no built in sound.

I thought I remembered reading that there were solder points for analog audio but I must have remembered wrong.
I've ordered a usb sound card, so hopefully that will work.

dankcushions

pi zero is basically the same power as a pi1, in terms of what it can/can't run. i believe USB sound cards use up some cycles so maybe they're worse, once you've added that.

jamesbeat

@dankcushions said in Can an Original Pi Model B Cope with Retropie?:

pi zero is basically the same power as a pi1, in terms of what it can/can't run. i believe USB sound cards use up some cycles so maybe they're worse, once you've added that.

Yes, I know it's pretty much the same machine.
The reason I went with the Zero is that it's much smaller.
Not because of the size of the board per se, but because of the locations of the ports.
My original Pi is so old that it doesn't even have mounting holes, and the ports are arranged in such a way that the device is huge once all the accessories are plugged in - it has stuff sticking out all over the place.
I would have had a really hard time fitting it in the case that I want to use.

Plus,it saved me a pretty long drive..

Edit:
If the usb sound card slows things down too much I'll build the audio circuit. I'm not going to bother unless it proves to be necessary though.

masteryoer

You can also remove the connectors from the original pi and wire directly to the through holes to make it even smaller.

jamesbeat

@masteryoer said in Can an Original Pi Model B Cope with Retropie?:

You can also remove the connectors from the original pi and wire directly to the through holes to make it even smaller.

True, but that's far too much work when you can get a Zero for $5.

I didn't even bother getting the W ($10) because I won't need wireless once it's set up.

masteryoer

I'll be excited to see them come out with a pi3 zero or similar.

jamesbeat

@masteryoer said in Can an Original Pi Model B Cope with Retropie?:

I'll be excited to see them come out with a pi3 zero or similar.

I expect it's only a matter of time.
I was looking at my Zero today and it still seems unbelievable that it can emulate all of those computers on my list.
We've come a long way, and these things will keep getting smaller and more powerful.
I'm glad I was around for the age of the 'micro' so I can truly appreciate how amazing the technology is nowadays.

NastyButtler322

@jamesbeat ahh OK. That is cool, but I think I'll do my original plan because I want an analog joystick for flying games.

jamesbeat

Well I tried it, and guess what?
The other emulators work ok, but ST performance is horrendous.

I thought it might be the usb sound card slowing things down, so I drove out to get my original Pi.
Same deal, ST emulation is awful in that too.

I'm considering a Pi3, but I'm not sure I'm going to go that route.
I had the same DVI problems with the Zero that appear to plague all Pi's - the dreaded flashing screen.

I went through this with my original Pi, and they don't appear to have fixed it with the Zero.

Going with the advice I received on the Pi forum, I tried everything, so I ended up spending loads of money on different hdmi cables, power supplies, powered hubs etc, and I even bought another monitor.

I tried turning up hdmi output in increments all the way up to 11, different refresh rates etc etc.

I'm kinda sick of going through all this, and I fear that buying a Pi3 would just be buying myself a headache.

Another option is to use a proper PC with retropie like I do with my tv console, but unfortunately that means I won't be able to use the case I want (inadequate cooling).

The only other option is
to buy an hdmi monitor, but this is also problematic.
It's hard to get a 4:3 (or 5:4) monitor with hdmi input, besides which it's another expense on top of a Pi3.

Looks like my cheap, simple project has turned into a bit of a nightmare.

The Raspberry Pi Foundation should really be a little more honest in its documentation and admit that dvi often won't work.
I know this would mean less revenue for them.
I expect a lot of people buy a Pi because they think they can use their exisiting monitor, but it's rather unethical.

Also the fanboys on the forums should be a bit more honest about the dvi problems instead of sending people on wild goose chases and recommending they buy more hardware to fix a known problem with the Pi itself.

Edit:
I ordered a vga adapter.
I'm not really expecting it to work properly, but I have to have one more crack at this before I throw in the towel.
If it works with the Zero, I'll buy a Pi3 to get Hatari working properly.

If not, I'll post a video on YouTube of me immolating the Zero in my aluminum foundry :D

jamesbeat

Ok, here's an update:

I bought an extremely inexpensive HDMI-VGA adapter, and to my utter astonishment, I just plugged it in and it works!

Now I have a display that I can use I'm happy using a Pi for this project, but the question is which one?

I said above that I was prepared to buy a Pi3 if I could get the display working, but I've been doing some thinking, and I'm not sure I understand why Hatari isn't working on the Zero.

I have a Sony Xperia Play phone that I bought specifically to run emulators. It has a 1GHz single core ARM processor with 512MB memory just like the Zero, yet it can run Hataroid (the Android port of Hatari) with aplomb, in fact it can run PSX fine too, and even does a pretty good job with N64.

This leads me to believe that it's not the low specs of the Zero that is causing the poor performance. Is it possible that there is something I can adjust to get Hatari running smoothly on the Zero?