Next-Gen Backwards Compatibility

tomjohn777

Ever since Sony announced that their next-generation console (PS5) would be backwards compatible with the PlayStation 4, I can’t stop wondering how it’s going to work. For example, take Insomniac’s Spider-Man. As I’m sure there will be some noticeable improvements on the next-gen hardware as showcased compared to say, the PS4 Pro, just how substantial will those enhancements be? Also, say the developers (Insomniac in this case,) decide to take full advantage of the next-generation for Spider-Man, would consumers have to repurchase the game specifically for the PS5 just to be able to experience the game in 8K resolution and 120fps? Or would Insomniac simply be able to release an update for the game on PS5? In addition, Cerny confirmed that following the release of the PS5, titles would be on retail for both the PS4 and the PS5 alike, so what would be the difference of buying the PS4 version of the game for the PS5 (since it is backwards compatible,) instead of buying the PS5 version of the game?
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barbudreadmon

@tomjohn777 i doubt ps4 games would run on ps5 without some kind of virtual machine (~~especially if ps5 is based on ryzen, a x86 processor, as suggested by some leaks~~), with ps4 games (~~an arm system~~) isolated from the ps5 system, they have no reason to give full access to the new hardware for ps4 games marketing-wise, obviously they want to sold a remastered game instead.

lostless

@tomjohn777 I Think we have to rethink what consoles are now. The ps5, for the most part is just a supped up PS4. Think of the industry like a iPhone. Certain apps require newer hardware to use to take advantage of the better performance and abilities of the newer chips. But old apps still run just fine, sometimes even better. App developers can also make some features run better on newer hardware, but scale down on older hardware. So games labeled as PS5 are the apps that will require the newer hardware to run. But it can play PS4 games just fine, and developers can update PS4 games to take advantage of the new hardware. But the core game won’t require the ps5. Like the PS4 pro, games were upgraded to take advantage of the better hardware, but Sony still required the developers to still have the games run on weaker hardware, which limited the upgrades. The ps5 will essentially remove all those limitations.

Same can be said about the Xbox one, the one x, and the newly announced scarlet.

barbudreadmon

@lostless said in Next-Gen Backwards Compatibility:

The ps5, for the most part is just a supped up PS4

~~No, if the leaks are true, they are different archs as i said. And even if they were the same archs,~~ gamecube/wii/wiiu are the same arch (powerpc), but gamecube games won't run better on wiiu (don't forget they want to sell remastered versions !). Or do you think companies are non-lucrative organizations who want to publish free patches for selling less games ?

mitu

@barbudreadmon isn't PS4 just an weird x86 board (i.e. still Intel/Amd? I recall the presentation at CCC when they cracked the Freebsd behind and ran Linux (and finally Steam).

barbudreadmon

@mitu Oops, nvm then, i was pretty sure i read somewhere the jaguar cpu was an arm cpu, but wikipedia says it's x86. I still don't think they'll provide free patches preventing them from selling remastered games though.

Edit : actually there is indeed an arm cpu in the ps4, to run part of the system it seems, maybe that's the source of my misunderstanding.

backstander

I remember when the original PS2 (fat) came out and it was able to play most PSX games. I believe they put in the audio chip for the PSX into the PS2 to help make this work. The games usually ran better and had smoother graphics. I think this PS5 will be similar to that in the way it will play PS4 games. The other approach they could use is how the Xbox One plays Xbox 360 games, they actually have a build of the game optimized to run on the Xbox One that is downloaded over the internet but you have to have the original Xbox 360 game disc to initiate the download. Basically to prove that you do own the original game and this is a kind of copy protection.

The Nintendo Switch runs better in docked mode vs handheld mode so the games are programmed with this in mind. Also if you overclock your Switch, you can get even better performance in some games even in handheld mode (at the cost of a shorter battery life though). This could be how the developers make games to run on both the PS4 and PS5 (if they share enough similar hardware). I mean PC games are ran on all kinds of different hardware and (the good ones) come with many customization settings (make it looks better vs run better) and they could just automatically adjust for the console you're running the game on (like how the Switch handles docked vs handheld).

If a developer makes an enhanced version of their game for the PS5, I would think some developers might give it away free to customers that already own the PS4 version and yet others will decide not too. When Bethesda released the enhanced Skyrim Special Edition, I got it for free because I had the original Skyrim (with the 3 DLCs) for Steam.

lostless

@backstander said in Next-Gen Backwards Compatibility:

I remember when the original PS2 (fat) came out and it was able to play most PSX games. I believe they put in the audio chip for the PSX into the PS2 to help make this work. The games usually ran better and had smoother graphics.

The PS2 had the PS1 hardware inside. Without it, the ps2 would of not been backwards compatible.

@backstander said in Next-Gen Backwards Compatibility:

. The other approach they could use is how the Xbox One plays Xbox 360 games, they actually have a build of the game optimized to run on the Xbox One

The xbox 360 was PPC based and the Xbox one is x86 based. MS is using a VM emulator to run xbox 360 games. The ps4 and ps5 are both x86 computers.

@backstander said in Next-Gen Backwards Compatibility:

This could be how the developers make games to run on both the PS4 and PS5 (if they share enough similar hardware). I mean PC games are ran on all kinds of different hardware and (the good ones) come with many customization settings (make it looks better vs run better) and they could just automatically adjust for the console you're running the game on (like how the Switch handles docked vs handheld).

To a developer, there is not much difference between a PS4 and PS5. The PS5 just has a lot more power and PS5 games will require that power. It running ps4 games is no different than a new PC running old games and apps.

@backstander said in Next-Gen Backwards Compatibility:

If a developer makes an enhanced version of their game for the PS5, I would think some developers might give it away free to customers that already own the PS4 version and yet others will decide not too.

If you're coming from a regular ps4, I'm sure you'll at least get the ps4 pro version of the game, but there will be nothing stopping them from upping it to run even better on a PS5, as is the case of Spiderman. Just you can't do too much as the core game still has to run on a standard PS4.

backstander

@lostless

If you're coming from a regular ps4, I'm sure you'll at least get the ps4 pro version of the game, but there will be nothing stopping them from upping it to run even better on a PS5, as is the case of Spiderman. Just you can't do too much as the core game still has to run on a standard PS4.

Thanks for the reply. Now I can picture in my head someone putting in a PS4 disc into their PS5 for the first time and it would download an update for the game which adds 8K support and other graphical enhances. Since it is like a more powerful computer, it wouldn't be as much work for the Devs to implement this (not like porting games written for ARM over to x86 or vice versa).

Parabolaralus

You can bet that most companies would rather sell you an updated game then update it for free, but you'll have a few anyhow...

One of the first titles i see being "remastered" for an update in resolution/fps will be Skyrim...Bethesda will do anything to sell you that dying pile at least one more time.