[Theme Changes] Attention Theme Makers: Upcoming Game Collections in ES

Pietze

Great news! :-)

pjft

@mattrixk I'm not sick of anyone, please :) Happy to chat and discuss!

Answers:

Unfortunately none that I'm aware of. I don't have access to a Windows machine to compile it, so other than compiling it yourself or having someone explicitly compile it, I don't really have a systematic way to produce those though I'd certainly like to make those available. If anyone has any ideas on how to achieve that, I'm all ears. As for being up to date, it is based on 2.3.1, so it should have everything but the most recent changes on font sizes from @jdrassa .
Hm... Neither, I suppose. My idea is that this would be accessible to almost anyone, with little explanation. The way I envision the use case (illustration purposes only, final product may differ), is kind of the following:
- Go to Collections Menu;
- Select an existing suggested collection based on an unused theme folder, or select "create new collection" and type a name. We might pre-fill a name, for users without a keyboard, but it won't be suggested;
- The user is taken to the normal gamelist views, and can manually select each and every game they want to add to a particular collection. When done, there will be a way to exit this "edit" mode.
- Collection now shows in the expected location (be it as a separate system or inside the "custom collections" system as a subfolder).

So, ultimately, no sym-links, no messing, etc. No new metadata tags. That's what I'd aspire to.

I imagine it would be nice to have some suggested games, based on the collection name, but I don't think we're there yet. Also, given that the "collection creation" stage is only done once per collection (or, at least, shouldn't be something that one would do very often I imagine), I am unsure whether investing in that wizardry would be needed - given that hopefully 90% of the time will be spent enjoying the actual collections rather than creating and editing them - but it is an interesting point.

As for your described use case, unfortunately I can't say that it will be supported out of the box, at least. As I mentioned, your collections will be able to reside either at the main system level (so, you would have a system for "Batman", etc) or as a subfolder under "custom collections" (which will likely be called "My Collections" for the end user). So, ultimately, what you could have at the moment would either be:

Mario
Sonic
Pacman
Tetris
Avengers
Batman
Spiderman
X-men
TMNT (I added that for you ;) )
All Games
Favorites
Last Played
Arcade
Daphne
GB
...etc.

or

My Collections
- Mario
- Sonic
- Pacman
- Tetris
- Avengers
- Batman
- Spiderman
- X-men
- TMNT (I added that for you ;) )
All Games
Favorites
Last Played
Arcade
Daphne
GB
...etc.

Note that you can select which of the collections to show (i.e. you don't need to show "All Games", "Favorites" and "Last Played" if you don't want to - and same would go for the other collections. I'm just including them here for the sake of the example).

I suppose you could prefix those with the type:

My Collections
- [Classics] Mario
- [Classics] Sonic
- [Classics] Pacman
- [Classics] Tetris
- [Superheros] Avengers
- [Superheros] Batman
- [Superheros] Spiderman
- [Superheros] X-men
- [Superheros] TMNT (I added that for you ;) )

In order to mitigate the lack of direct use case support, but I was not thinking of allowing users to create complex hierarchies here as it just makes it a lot more convoluted from a UX perspective, with questionable benefit to the wider audience. But let me know if you fundamentally disagree with these options, and I'm happy to explore tentatively any elegant and simple ways to make that happen - or at least build something that could in the future be extended should there be the need.

But right now I'm really aiming for something simple and practical.

@AndersHP - I don't have a problem with adding a sorting option for the system. I think that, while the previous All Games example really didn't demonstrate that use case, your "sorting <a specific collection's> game by console" is a valid one. It may not be present out of the box, but it's not hard to do. Noted.

As for favorites in the system folders, please refer to the thread I linked to earlier. I - and most people - agree it is a use case worth addressing.

It's not that you can't have them in the folders, it's just that last time that was attempted there were way too many opinions on how to visually represent that, and little to no consensus on how to achieve that.

The games will still be in the actual systems, and their metadata will state that they are a favorite - it's just that we don't represent them visually at the moment. That's something that can be added later - be it as a definitive solution, or as an interim compromise.

But that is not the battle I'm fighting now. At least with this change.

For all intents and purposes, you can - in this current build - with a click of a button star and unstar favorite games. They will be added to the "Favorites" system, and their metadata will change to reflect that. You just won't see anything change in the individual systems, unless you'd open a game's metadata editor and see that the "Favorite" value would have changed.

Hope that makes sense.

jdrassa

@pjft I need to get around to writing up the process for setting up automated Windows builds. The process still needs a bit of refinement though.

pjft

@jdrassa Not a bother. I know you had it set up for your repository, but I don't know the details. Whenever you have something, I'm happy to give it a whirl, but no urgency.

Thanks!

mattrixk

@pjft Thanks again for the explanation.

I was not thinking of allowing users to create complex hierarchies here as it just makes it a lot more convoluted from a UX perspective, with questionable benefit to the wider audience.

I understand completely. It's always a good idea to follow the KISS principle. You can build up to complexity, but it's generally best to do it with a bunch of simple steps, rather than one big complex attempt.

[Classics] Tetris
[Superheros] Avengers

This seems like the best option for me. If I decided I wanted to move [Superheros] Batman into it's own System on the carousel, would I just have to create it's own folder? Would it have to be named [Superheros] Batman, or [superheros]-batman?

AndersHP

@pjft said in [Theme Changes] Attention Theme Makers: Upcoming Game Collections in ES:

I imagine it would be nice to have some suggested games, based on the collection name, but I don't think we're there yet. Also, given that the "collection creation" stage is only done once per collection (or, at least, shouldn't be something that one would do very often I imagine), I am unsure whether investing in that wizardry would be needed

It sounds like the way the collections are made will be quite easy, no need to spend your time on making a suggested games wizard, if you ask me.

As for favorites in the system folders, please refer to the thread I linked to earlier. I - and most people - agree it is a use case worth addressing.

It's not that you can't have them in the folders, it's just that last time that was attempted there were way too many opinions on how to visually represent that, and little to no consensus on how to achieve that.

OK, but isn't that where you, as the guy who puts time into it, decides how it will look? I mean, if you could star and un-star with the push of a button, and switch between favourites and all games with the push of another button, is there a more seamless way to do it?

The way I am going to use these favourites is, in line with all this retrogaming, to have my old collections of games for every system. When e.g. all Master System games in the world is about 300 MB (if I'm not mistaken) there's something cool about having them all. But it's so uninspiring looking at an endless list of games, it feels like you really have none at all. With favourites easily available, browsing only the 20-30 games you once owned or played with your friends, brings back all the memories.

Anyways, it's really exciting to follow this development!

pjft

@mattrixk said in [Theme Changes] Attention Theme Makers: Upcoming Game Collections in ES:

This seems like the best option for me. If I decided I wanted to move [Superheros] Batman into it's own System on the carousel, would I just have to create it's own folder? Would it have to be named [Superheros] Batman, or [superheros]-batman?

Identical to the collection name. Which will, eventually cause trouble with some characters that aren't accepted in the file system, like "*" and "?", but I'll need to filter those beforehand.

And then you'd edit the collection in the menu and select "Show at top level" or something.

At least that's my idea, but I haven't really started this yet - first waiting to close off "All", "Last Played" and "Favorites" before moving on to the next.

@AndersHP said in [Theme Changes] Attention Theme Makers: Upcoming Game Collections in ES:

OK, but isn't that where you, as the guy who puts time into it, decides how it will look? I mean, if you could star and un-star with the push of a button, and switch between favourites and all games with the push of another button, is there a more seamless way to do it?

Well... Kind of. :)

In the case of the "Favorites" feature, it has been implemented by several people differently. In fact, this current implementation is a subset of @Zigurana's work in the Kids-mode branch.

There are several discussions that are worth being had, and @Zigurana is also working on bringing over all those things to the main branch, in due time.

What I'm developing here is the "Collections" concept - the fact that "Favorites" is a part of it is just a collateral coincidence. At my request, @Zigurana was kind enough to let me adopt the required set of features to make this work for a "Favorite" collection, but other than that I don't plan on doing anything that overlaps with his work, as it is his brainchild, and I'm sure that when it comes over it will be fantastic. :)

The way I am going to use these favourites is, in line with all this retrogaming, to have my old collections of games for every system. When e.g. all Master System games in the world is about 300 MB (if I'm not mistaken) there's something cool about having them all. But it's so uninspiring looking at an endless list of games, it feels like you really have none at all. With favourites easily available, browsing only the 20-30 games you once owned or played with your friends, brings back all the memories.

I fully get that, make no mistake. If you see the work I did on "Filters" and now on custom collections, you can tell I suffer from similar problems :)

You will be able to filter by favorites, though, so you can certainly in your system just open the filters and select "Filter by Favorites" to reduce the list for that particular list.

You just won't have a visible icon for those.

Thinking about it, I need to add that filter.

Hope this helps.

AndersHP

@pjft Thanks for clearing this up, I just stumbled upon your mentioning of collections like "SEGA games" and thought about the favourites in the systems folders.

I will look very much forward to these implementations. Will it be RetroPie-only or general EmulationStation updates, when they arrive?

pjft

@AndersHP Makes sense!

This will only require an update to EmulationStation, and I hope (fingers crossed) that in a worst case scenario this will all be available by the first week of August. But no promises.

UDb23

@pjft Some updated logo style proposals; could you test how they look in ES?

metal

color

0_1499511250870_text only.JPG
text only

SVGs available here.

pjft

@UDb23 Thanks! I'll test them out and record a video or something, once again.

Thank you for your hard work on these :)

jdrassa

@pjft PR has been submitted for carbon with basic support. Default is to render the "system" name as text when a logo is not found. It is using variables so you should be able to just add logos in the right place with the right name and it should pick them up. For example, to add a logo for favorites, you would place the logo here: es-theme-carbon/art/logo/auto-favorites.svg.

HurricaneFan

With Collections, is there just text added to a games metadata that says what collection it belongs to? Or will I have to have the same game physically in 2 folders to make Collections work?

Can a game be in multiple collections?

pjft

@HurricaneFan answers: No. No. Yes.

But it's still not implemented - except for favorites. :)

pjft

@UDb23 Thanks!

Here's a video:

My thoughts:

I love the text. In fact, it looks great!

I tried to use for Last Played just your icon, and then the controller from the theme; and for Favorites I used your "Last Played" text and the icon in lieu of the controller from the theme.

I think I like the setup for the "All Games" system the best: stylized text (like the one you also did for Last Played), but with a line-art controller, to fit the original theme's look and feel.

I wouldn't mind getting a folder icon for those, in line-art, with the aspect you have - it's just that having them all filled doesn't at the moment match the rest of the theme.

But that's my opinion.

Thank you! :)

mediamogul

@pjft

it's just that having them all filled doesn't at the moment match the rest of the theme.
But that's my opinion.

I agree. Last night I threw together a few similar line art images to use temporarily. Of course these aren't a perfect match either. The line weight should really be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 pt.

alt text

UDb23

@pjft Thanks for the video. I agree using text in the bars + lineart controller looks best.
Will provide some proposal for line-art controllers and the missing "favorites" and "my collection" text logos. I have some other TTF fonts that should look nice so that each will have a different font.

UDb23

@mediamogul They look quite good.
As said I'm going to try a similar "lineart" version out of the folder icons I made previously.

mediamogul

@UDb23

I'm sure they'll look great. Thanks to all you guys for the hard work you've put into this feature addition. From idea to execution, it's been a long time in the coming, but it was well worth the wait.

UDb23

@pjft said in [Theme Changes] Attention Theme Makers: Upcoming Game Collections in ES:

with a line-art controller, to fit the original theme's look and feel.

How about this type of "controller" ?

(black background not included, just to show the white lines)
Line thickness resembles the same as other controllers.

SVG here.

If you like it then I will create the other "controller" icons too.

About the "text only logo" for custom system would you prefer all same font (bauhaus) like "all games" or different font for each ?