FBA vs. MAME

[dankcushions]

@andershp said in FBA vs. MAME:

Anyone tried DoDonPachi DaiOuJou? It's supposed to be the best 'Pachi-game out there, but it's very glitchy in FBA.

see our compatibility lists: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GaqIIoiWbzKHwZ52S2xCSDQXILo81Ls1mHK6czKGAtM/edit#gid=1671511927

i played it quite a bit. it has a lot of slowdown, but that's probably hardware accurate.

[pjft]

@andershp I had played it in the past, and it seemed to run well. I've just left it on demonstration mode for a while and it seems to consistently it 59.x-60fps.

I expect that if I play it it'll be the same.

What do you mean by "glitchy"? Also, are you referring to Master, or Black Label (and, maybe @dankcushions knows - what's the difference?)?

[Pussyfoot]

@pjft said in FBA vs. MAME:

@pussyfoot I can share the small list of games I have that run better in AdvMame (basically anything that lags on Mame or FBA I try it there) when I have the chance to retrieve them from my Pi but the SEGA System 24 like Bonanza Bros, Crack Down and Gain Ground run flawlessly there, as well as Bubble Symphony, Bubble Memories, Darius 1 (3 screens), Darius 2 and... Gaiden, was it? RayForce. Sly Spy and Midnight Resistance don't have audio issues later in the game. Arabian Fight. Puzzle Bobble 2, 3 and 4 (I think). Nitro Ball.

I added the SEGA System 24 games. Super Masters (golf) won't start and I assume the controls on Rough Racer need analog or a spinner to work...

Let me know if those other games are worth moving over or adding.

Oh, I also use it for Outrun and Turbo Outrun as well because of the analog controls and no noticeable lag.

Yeah, and PunchOut works great, too!

Do you know how to prevent it from stretching the output to 16x9? I'd like to keep the original aspect ratio of the game.

[pjft]

@pussyfoot I checked and I didn't find any glaring omission there. I also have the Sega Virtual Cup (?) soccer games there, but other than that you have pretty much the majority of the games I have on AdvMame.

Alas, I am not that much of an expert in AdvMame - I'm still struggling to configure Dip Switches for OutRunners, for instance.

I too have noticed that the aspect ratio is a bit different to the one in MAME 2003. @caver01 any thoughts on this?

[UDb23]

@pjft great, thanks. I think I have the right rom.
Will check tomorrow and let you know.

[caver01]

@pjft said in FBA vs. MAME:

@pussyfoot I checked and I didn't find any glaring omission there. I also have the Sega Virtual Cup (?) soccer games there, but other than that you have pretty much the majority of the games I have on AdvMame.

Alas, I am not that much of an expert in AdvMame - I'm still struggling to configure Dip Switches for OutRunners, for instance.

I too have noticed that the aspect ratio is a bit different to the one in MAME 2003. @caver01 any thoughts on this?

I do. My thought is that you need to be mindful of what you mean when describing "the orignal AR of the game". For example, Street Fighter II is programmed to a very wide AR, almost like a 16:9 widescreen. However, anyone who has played the actual game knows it was displayed at 4:3. So. . . this is a game where the original resolution, as designed, is NOT how it should look when played. It should be stretched to 4:3 to make the characters and scenery not look distorted. Preserving the game's AR is not an accurate way to go in some cases.

Now, the challenge is getting AdvanceMAME to bend to your will in these cases. How do you get it to force a certain AR?? I would need to dive into the docs to find the answer, and even then, we would need to test. Sometimes, the settings in the .rc don't work like expected, although recent updates have improved this somewhat.

Have you told Advmame that you are using a widescreen with display_aspect 16/9? It might make a difference. Also, I am thinking of configs like display_expand in combination with display_magnifysize on a per-rom basis. This is going to be tricky, and we might need to ask the developer for advice here. The example being something like: "How do I force Street Fighter 2 to display 4:3 on a widescreen TV?" Now, I can't even test this since my system runs on an old LCD, but maybe AdvanceMAME already knows to add a black border if you setup your AR properly with display_aspect 16/9? You tell me?

[caver01]

I think I need to start working on my TV-connected project sooner than later, if for no other reason than to help folks in this situation!

[pjft]

@caver01 thanks for the thorough reply! I was mostly asking as you might have crossed that in the past. I get what you mean in terms of resolution vs aspect ratio, as truth be told for the most part I'm not one to be excessively picky about that.

Still I'm always keen on learning from everyone else's experiences, hence the question. Thank you!

[caver01]

@pjft Yeah, I have been around and around with AdvanceMAME using earlier versions like 1.2 and 1.3 on the Pi before I started using RetroPie. I spent a lot of time configuring it with custom modelines to get the display resolution right for vector games to look great, but a lot of that is unnecessary now with more recent updates. I still wish we had more direct control over the viewport like we do with RetroArch.

[Pussyfoot]

Updated MAME and AdvanceMAME rom lists.

AdvanceMAME: https://pastebin.com/nic0T0Gg

mame-libretro: https://pastebin.com/PivessuM

Notable changes: added Demon (vector game) and Toobin to AdvanceMAME. You have to edit the controls for Toobin to get it to work, but it runs great under AdvanceMAME.

[caver01]

@pussyfoot said in FBA vs. MAME:

You have to edit the controls for Toobin to get it to work, but it runs great under AdvanceMAME.

If you have 8-way joysticks, or using a gamepad, I would recommend setting up a "tankstick" control mapping scheme for Toobin which allows you to control the game with a single stick as follows:

Here's a mapping for a single 8-way joystick to control two tank sticks:

Game Control           Mapped to
Right/Up               Up <not> Right     or    Left <not> Down
Right/Down             Down <not> Right   or   Right <not> Up <not> Down
Left/Up                Up <not> Left   or   Right <not> Down
Left/Down              Down <not> Left   or   Left <not> Up <not> Down

This scheme can be done using <CODE_NOT> mapping, which lets you combine controls and exclude controls for each. So, for the first one, you would open the MAME GUI menu with TAB, then modify controls for THIS GAME, then select Right/Up in the menu, then to map control push your joystick up and let it recenter and immediately right twice, and let it accept that. Then add another for Left and immediately Down twice. Once both of these are accepted, move down to the next control and repeat, double-tapping directions that you want excluded with <not>.

This gives you control with one joystick for games that normally require two. Battlezone, Vindicators, etc. can be mapped this way.

[Pussyfoot]

@caver01 That works great for Battlezone and Vindicators! Thanks! I couldn't get it to work well for Toobin. I think that game used 4 buttons, not two joysticks.

[caver01]

@pussyfoot It used four buttons with two on the left and two on right which amounts to the same as a set of two 2-directional sticks. UP or Down, for ether the left or right side.

Still, I agree, some of the control is not as intuitive as you might think for Toobin. I found playing with some of the combos helps, but I also suck at the game anyway, so it hardly matters.

[pjft]

One game I just tested that surprisingly performed better in MAME rather than in FBA is "The Cliffhanger - Edward Randy". In FBA it stays at 55fps or so while it runs full speed in MAME. I wonder if the emulation for the game is fine in MAME.

[LinuxArcadeGuy]

@pussyfoot most of those games require samples to be located in \retropie-device\bios\fba

[AndersHP]

@caver01 said in FBA vs. MAME:

@pussyfoot said in FBA vs. MAME:

You have to edit the controls for Toobin to get it to work, but it runs great under AdvanceMAME.

If you have 8-way joysticks, or using a gamepad, I would recommend setting up a "tankstick" control mapping scheme for Toobin which allows you to control the game with a single stick as follows:

Here's a mapping for a single 8-way joystick to control two tank sticks:

Game Control           Mapped to
Right/Up               Up <not> Right     or    Left <not> Down
Right/Down             Down <not> Right   or   Right <not> Up <not> Down
Left/Up                Up <not> Left   or   Right <not> Down
Left/Down              Down <not> Left   or   Left <not> Up <not> Down

Can this work as a replacement for a 4-way restrictor plate in 4-way games, like Pacman and Donkey Kong, in retroarch.cfg, perhaps?
The accidental up+right or left click can really make a difference in these games, and it's quite a hassle to rotate the plate underneath every time I want to play these games...

[sirhenrythe5th]

Toobin was indeed played with 4 buttons on the real cabinet .
I recommend to use a joypad with 4 shoulder buttons.

[Pussyfoot]

@andershp No. The problem with 4 way games is that the game program itself doesn't know how to handle diagonals. Let's use Donkey Kong as an example. Mario starts off running to the right. If you're pointing right-up or right-down, Mario should move right. How does the game know that? Well, the ONLY available movement is right, so that's the way it should be interpreted. What happens when we get to the ladder? The assumed horizontal movement of diagonal-up automatically becomes an "up" command. That's how it works on the home versions of Donkey Kong. However, the game was programmed that way to do that. The arcade version has no logic to do that. You'd have to literally hack the rom to add the logic to work with 8-way controllers.

BTW, there was a hack in very old version of MAME to allow Defender and Stargate work with 4/8way controller rather than use a reverse button. I think it leveraged something that WAS in the rom, but it was taken out. Pugsy's cheats don't have an option for it, so it can't be enabled that way.

[caver01]

@andershp said in FBA vs. MAME:

Can this work as a replacement for a 4-way restrictor plate in 4-way games

I will add, there is the pitfall of thinking you can create a mapping that would work, if you did it something like this:

Game Control           Mapped to
Up                     Up <not> Right  or   Up <not> Left
Down                   Down <not> Right   or   Down <not> Left
Right                  Right <not> Down   or   Right <not> Up
Left                   Left <not> Down   or   Left <not> Up

I would expect this kind of mapping to exclude corner controls, but it won't prevent gameplay mishaps like you would hope. In fact, it will probably play exactly the same way in 4-way games. As @Pussyfoot said, you would be walking up to a ladder, and swipe to up through a corner, The moment you hit the corner with both switches engaged, NOTHING WORKS. Mario is stuck until you release one or the other switches in the corner to point squarely into one of the 4 cardinal directions. Only then will Mario climb the ladder. This is basically how it works already, so having the mapping exclude the combinations does not really buy you anything. The problem is that the game does not know how to interpret the corners. It needs contextual logic:

Logic that goes something like:
"If the user is pushing the joystick in a cardinal direction, then pushes into a corner, take that as an input to move in the added direction."

With this logic, the game would allow you to orbit the joystick through the corners when you want to change direction. However, in order to prevent getting stuck, the game would also need this additional logic:
"If the user is pushing the joystick in a cardinal direction, then pushes into a corner, take that as a input to move in the added direction--but only if it is legally possible to move in that direction, otherwise, continue in the first cardinal direction."

With this, you could use the corners to your advantage, continuing on a path until the very moment it is possible to change directions.

With most 8-way setups, it is pretty easy to accidentally hit a corner. Sometimes you can adjust your actuator to prevent that, or make it easier or harder, depending on the games you like to play. There are no good solutions EXCEPT perhaps using the Xbox driver, which I understand lets you enable logic like this, but it apparently only works with gamepad devices, not keyboard input controllers.

[GreenHawk84]

I noticed when first playing the Pi last year that TMNT on Mame2003 had graphical glitches vs. FBA. I prefer FBA because it uses later romsets of CPS games which would lead me to believe FBA is the more accurate and up-to-date arcade solution.