[Testing] Kodi 18.0 Leia beta versions now available for RetroPie!

[Rascas]

@cebix said in [Testing] Kodi 18.0 Leia beta versions now available for RetroPie!:

@Rascas How can you update to RC1? The first post instructions only get me the v4 beta. Thanks.

In RetroPie-Setup go to Configuration Tools -> Raspbian Tools -> Upgrade Raspbian packages
Or in terminal do:

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -y

[Rascas]

@BuZz said in [Testing] Kodi 18.0 Leia beta versions now available for RetroPie!:

I have managed to work around the issue - seems related to "overscan_scale=1" - if I removed that from /boot/config.txt the on screen controls display correctly.

So either a firmware issue or a compatibility issue with Kodi and this option.

That might be it! In all the RPis that I tested I have that line commented, don't remember why. I know what it does theoretically, but I don't need it on my Pis. Can you tell why is it needed in RetroPie ?
I also took a look at Raspbian and LibreELEC and they do not come with that enabled. Since this probably is not much tested, the newer firmwares might have a bug.

[BuZz]

@Rascas explained here - https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/wiki/Overscan#the-console-looks-good-but-the-picture-is-off-for-emulationstationretroarchetc

basically on some screens that require overscan settings, without this ES can render offscreen.

This is only a problem with Kodi 18 though on the latest firmware. Kodi 17.x is ok.

[Rascas]

@BuZz I just tested with overscan_scale=1 and I still cannot reproduce de problem. But it can be that in conjunction with something else like yours overscan_bottom=X, etc. Also, do you use some videoplayer at RetroPie boot ? I cannot see any related errors in your Kodi logs...

[Rascas]

@BuZz Well, I can reproduce it now with overscan_scale=1 and without disable_overscan=1 (I have disable_overscan=1 in all my Pis). So it is most likey a problem/bug with Kodi 18 and overscan scale.
Correct me if I am wrong, overscan_scale=1 and overscan enabled are the default RetroPie settings right?

[BuZz]

@Rascas yes. Those are the defaults.

[Rascas]

@BuZz Can you please check this thread ?
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=338052

[ParadoxGBB]

Hi all,

Big fan of Kodi on RetroPie.

I followed the directions here to upgrade to RC1 (RC2 not dropped yet maybe) and I edited Config.txt to remove the overscan to fix the overlay problems. I also updated to ScreenSaver 5.0.1. Playback works great, but the screensaver now causes a hang and then eventual force out of Kodi. I tried fiddling with the settings, and even attempted to revert back to the version I was using before, but I couldn't get it working so I ended up reverting back to Krypton for now. I'll pick up RC2 later that looks like from here should work with the default overscan settings to see if that fixes it and will report back if that works.

[psyke83]

@BuZz

Users on the Steam forum also reported black screen issues caused by overscan_scale=1 for the steamlink app, which is why they implemented a block in the scripts.

Even though I can't reproduce the issue re: the steamlink (and haven't yet tried the kodi rc), perhaps it would be a good idea to move that configuration out of emulationstation and into the raspbiantools script as an optional tunable? I'd be happy to work on that and send a PR if you're interested.

[Rascas]

@psyke83 The overscan_scale=1 issue is already fixed in the latest firmware (check the kodi forum link above). You have to run sudo rpi-update to get the latest firmware or wait until it reaches the rpi foundation repo and update, it shouldn't take long.

[Rascas]

One thing that probably should be discussed is if the overscan_scale=1 is really needed, because as popcornmix says, it seems to be a "last resort" thing, as it can degrade image quality (and probably add more processing power to do the scaling).

[psyke83]

@Rascas said in [Testing] Kodi 18.0 Leia beta versions now available for RetroPie!:

@psyke83 The overscan_scale=1 issue is already fixed in the latest firmware (check the kodi forum link above). You have to run sudo rpi-update to get the latest firmware or wait until it reaches the rpi foundation repo and update, it shouldn't take long.

Thanks, but I personally don't like using rpi-update due to the way it dumps the firmware libraries into /opt/vc/; for example, in the case of stretch, it installs duplicate libraries that are supposed to be phased out (libGLESv2, libEGL etc.), which can cause compatibility issues.

Not all tagged firmware releases get packaged for Raspbian, so we may have to wait some time for the fix to arrive (hopefully not).

[Rascas]

@psyke83 said in [Testing] Kodi 18.0 Leia beta versions now available for RetroPie!:

Thanks, but I personally don't like using rpi-update due to the way it dumps the firmware libraries into /opt/vc/; for example, in the case of stretch, it installs duplicate libraries that are supposed to be phased out (libGLESv2, libEGL etc.), which can cause compatibility issues.

Well I think this does not happen anymore, that happened only in the time that RPi Foundation decided to rename the libraries due the open source graphics driver getting more popular, and there was some mistakes and, of course, everything that depended on them had to be fixed/changed.

But yes, rpi-update should only be used for testing purposes in my opinion, it gets the bleeding-edge kernel and firmware. And again, this fix shouldn't take long to reach the repos.

[hhromic]

@psyke83 said in [Testing] Kodi 18.0 Leia beta versions now available for RetroPie!:

@BuZz

Users on the Steam forum also reported black screen issues caused by overscan_scale=1 for the steamlink app, which is why they implemented a block in the scripts.

Even though I can't reproduce the issue re: the steamlink (and haven't yet tried the kodi rc), perhaps it would be a good idea to move that configuration out of emulationstation and into the raspbiantools script as an optional tunable? I'd be happy to work on that and send a PR if you're interested.

That is very tempting, I also have thought of not forcing such an option in EmulationStation, specially for people who doesn't need overscan (like me). It should be optional indeed. If I remove the setting manually, it will be put back when ES is next configured, e.g. during update.

However, the overscan settings seem to be not very intuitive in the RPI. For example I believe that the disable_overscan config is broken in current firmware as it is not respected, i.e. it doesn't matter what you set, you always get overscan enabled.

The overscan_scale setting is actually only needed for displays that require overscan, probably most CRT setups and some weird HDMI displays. The reason is that the overscan settings are only applied to the framebuffer, not the dispmanx layers where ES is rendered. Without overscan_scale, ES is not displayed respecting the overscan adjustment settings. For displays that do not require overscan, this setting produces no visual difference but still incurs in scaling processing by the GPU and hence overscan_scaleshould not be used.

I think the best approach would be to put an option in the ES script GUI to enabled/disable overscan scaling (and explaining that it's only necessary for setups that require overscan adjustments) and not blindly force this during the configure phase. Actually, like @psyke83 suggested, better would be in a more general configuration scriptmodule, like raspbiantools. However raspbian does not only run for raspberry pies (I think ORA too?). How about in the retropiemenu instead?

[hhromic]

@hhromic said in [Testing] Kodi 18.0 Leia beta versions now available for RetroPie!:

However, the overscan settings seem to be not very intuitive in the RPI. For example I believe that the disable_overscan config is broken in current firmware as it is not respected, i.e. it doesn't matter what you set, you always get overscan enabled.

Ok I got an answer from popcornmix regarding how disable_overscan actually works in https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/1079#issuecomment-444467449:

disable_overscan=1 removes the default overscan settings.
These are:
48 pixels on each edge for HD CEA modes
32 pixels on each edge for SD CEA modes
0 for DMT modes (which displays don't overscan).

You can still apply additional overscan settings which are added to the default.

So yes, overscan_scale should be activated only if necessary to avoid extra processing.

[BuZz]

@hhromicIt is only enabled if needed as it's only active if disable_overscan=0 afair. Currently if "overscan" is needed, this option is required or ES will render offscreen. We would need some code in ES to be able to adjust screen position like on Kodi.

we could make sure overscan is disabled by default (Maybe it already is, I can't remember), but I believe we will have a lot of people complaining if this option is removed without extra code for ES.

I have a screen which requires this option. On my other screen i have disable_overscan=1 so the option is ignored.

[hhromic]

@BuZz said in [Testing] Kodi 18.0 Leia beta versions now available for RetroPie!:

It is only enabled if needed as it's only active if disable_overscan=0 afair.

I thought the same too, but see my previous post. As popcornmix clarified, the disable_overscan option actually just sets all overscan margins to 0 in one setting, it doesn't disable the overscan engine itself. There seems to be no option to do that.

Currently if "overscan" is needed, this option is required or ES will render offscreen.

Exactly, as you say, only if overscan is needed by the display.

We would need some code in ES to be able to adjust screen position like on Kodi.

Only if the intention is to get rid of setting overscan_scale. Otherwise, for users that need overscan, the scaling by the GPU is the cost to pay until ES can do overscan correction itself natively. I don't think is a big deal currently.

we could make sure overscan is disabled by default (Maybe it already is, I can't remember)

By default Raspbian Stretch comes with disable_overscan commented out (so it doesn't change the default overscan margins), and as mentioned there is no way to "disable overscan" entirely. According to popcornmix, the default margins are:

48 pixels on each edge for HD CEA modes
32 pixels on each edge for SD CEA modes
0 for DMT modes (which displays don't overscan).

but I believe we will have a lot of people complaining if this option is removed without extra code for ES.

True, users would start complaining, however I don't think the current behaviour needs to be changed for them (activating overscan_scale by default). Instead, I think we just need to improve the ES scriptmodule to handle the case of users that do not want/need overscan_scale and do not force it at every update/configure. This should be relatively simple to do and accomodates all cases.

I have a screen which requires this option. On my other screen i have disable_overscan=1 so the option is ignored.

The option is not ignored, just visually not perceptible. The GPU is still doing 1:1 scaling.

[BuZz]

@hhromic if you are right then why did the Kodi bug only happen when this was set and disable_overscan is 0. Why doesn't the firmware disable it if it's not needed with overscan disabled / set to 0? Note we have had this discussion years ago and it's set for a reason. If we disable it we will get more user complaints that stuff is rendered offscreen.

I'm not yet convinced we should change it, not until we have a way to make es/retroarch obey the overscan settings.

We could add a configuration to disable the setting. But it's easily done my editing the config.txt. I'm reluctant to change defaults though (not saying that you are asking for that - I misread your post initially).

[hhromic]

@BuZz the Kodi bug seemed to be a problem with the overscan_scale engine itself, not the overscan settings overall, the commit that fixed the firmware for the issue states:

https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/commit/afd824ac32ab1f3bf8b462178770253f8757bf1f

firmware: dispmanx: Also apply overscan_scale when clamping to screen
See: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=338052

I think what happens is that when all the overscan margins are 0, for example when disable_overscan=1, then the overscan_scale engine is doing 1:1 and the bug doesn't manifest.

I can't try myself (I don't have KODI installed) but I bet these settings also trigger the bug:

disable_overscan=1
overscan_left=40
overscan_right=40
overscan_top=40
overscan_bottom=40
overscan_scale=1

Also I bet that if you move disable_overscanto the bottom, the bug doesn't happen because it will reset the overscan margins back to 0.

Anyway, to be clear, I'm not trying to convince you to remove setting overscan_scale, but I'm trying to convince you of the need to add functionality to not force it when users don't need it. For example something like : if installing ES for the first time and overscan_scale is not set, then set it, otherwise do not touch it.

Edit Just realised you edited your post, yes, adding a configruation to disable the setting and making sure the script respects the setting. Editing the config.txt file manually doesn't work because on the next update/configure, ES will again set overscan_scale back to 1.

Edit2:

Why doesn't the firmware disable it if it's not needed with overscan disabled / set to 0?

That's a question for the firmware mantainers :) I also agree with you that it is the expected behaviour given the option name. I already raised an issue asking for the documentation to be updated to better explain this. The option should be named overscan_reset or such :/.

[BuZz]

@hhromic I will test your settings.

I would be willing to set the option as part of image building and remove it from ES. Then those that change it won't get it set again. Would that suffice?

No need for a PR though as I'd like to do the changes.