Expectations from a $35 Computer
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You have to understand that the vast majority of people are used to plug and play. They have little to no experience troubleshooting systems, and they get frustrated when things do not do what they expect right out of the box. Many folks buy a RPi for a specific use and do not even realize that it can be used for a ton of different things, so they get upset when they have to do more than just plug it in a go. (I just communicated with someone who seems to be in this category on another site.)
Learning how to do anything beyond plugging in and pressing power can have a bit of a learning curve, so try not to get too annoyed by new folks who have never played with Linux, or programming, or SBCs before. They're just ignorant of the process and need some guidance to help them along.
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@jabberwock101 said in Expectations from a $35 Computer:
so try not to get too annoyed by new folks who have never played with Linux, or programming, or SBCs before. They're just ignorant of the process and need some guidance to help them along.
I definitely try not to get too annoyed and will do what I can to help others. I'm still grateful for all I'm learning here. It just feels like people want something for nothing, or that they're "owed" perfection. If that makes sense.
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@obsidianspider Yeah, that can be true. It does get a little tiresome when someone rants about how the Raspberry Pi is pointless because it can't do as much as a $500 PC, or how the RPi isn't "really" a $35 computer because it requires some extra bits to accomplish most things (extra bits that most of us already have laying around waiting to be used for something).
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@jabberwock101 said in Expectations from a $35 Computer:
because it requires some extra bits to accomplish most things (extra bits that most of us already have laying around waiting to be used for something).
Haha, yeah, I haven't got a precise total, but the parts for my Super Famicom build are well over $200.
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I believe it has a lot to do with all the click bait news articles out there with sensationalized headlines such as, "Play Any Game Ever for $35". Those articles bring in a lot of ad revenue without helping their readers understand the possible limitations involved. However, for every ten users that just wanted a cheap and easy solution for retro-gaming, I'm sure you get at least one or two who see beyond those limitations and are able to embrace the idea of hobbyist computing.
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@obsidianspider said in Expectations from a $35 Computer:
Raspberry Pi is pretty remarkable for what it can do.
Back in 2013 I bought my first Raspberry Pi 1 B+. When I saw how smoothly this cheap device executed Marvel vs. Capcom and Street Fighter Alpha 3, I was really really amazed!!
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@obsidianspider the bane of our existence... but yes I think part of it has to do with all the sensationalised articles that understate or blatantly ignore the learning curve, they should do more to highlight the raspberry pi foundation and what they designed the pi for namely learning how to use Linux/computers. Then you have people who are just freeloaders/romhoarders who want all the games in the world for free and complain when it isn't handed to them on a platter.
RetroPie is popular because it's now basically plug and play and has more than adequate documentation but tbh i liked it better before we made it user friendly. It filtered out the freeloaders and only people who were willing to learn new things were able to get it sorted. We've done lots of people a disservice for the user friendliness aspect because they aren't willing to learn things if they aren't absolutely required to which is a shame. It's a pitiful way to live life. I really respect the people who take the time to learn things for themselves and contribute back to the community with their developments.
If you read the documentation it will answer 99% of your questions: https://retropie.org.uk/docs/
Also if you want a solution to your problems read this first: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first
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I completely agree. Maybe this is due to the evolution of RetroPie from a simple shell script for installing emulators to a platform based on Raspbian. Man, sometimes people are so lazy they expect everything to be easy, but when it is not all they do is complain...
(Sorry if this is a long rant...) -
I don't think that there is anything wrong with RetroPie becoming more user-friendly, and I find it odd that anyone would bemoan a system becoming easier to use. Linux and the Raspberry Pi Project weren't created to make computing MORE exclusive, in fact I would argue that they were created for the opposite reason.
I know that folks who seem to revel in their ignorance can be annoying, but you have to understand that as the popularity of the Raspberry Pi and the RetroPie OS expands there will be an influx of folks who are a bit clueless, and some of them will even seem entitled, but that does not make them bad people. Most of them are looking for the same things that brought you to the Raspberry Pi and to RetroPie, but because of a lack of experience some of them will simply not understand how this sort of computing works. They are used to extremely easy to use consumer electronics, and many of them have never encountered a Linux system outside of Android. That just means that we have an opportunity to bring them into the fold. None of us began life knowing how to manipulate code, or play in Linux systems, or even how to properly troubleshoot the Raspberry Pi. I guarantee that pretty much everyone has had a moment where they have been frustrated with some aspect of an OS and wished that it would "just work".
The RetroPie OS was not created exclusively for Linux savvy folks and those who enjoy getting into the guts of a program, it was made by folks who thought it would be cool to play all of those old school games in one spot, on one machine, and with a minimum of fuss. Instead of getting annoyed by new folks who seem to be put off by getting into the more technical aspects of RetroPie, why not try to help them out and realize that jumping into something like this takes some getting used to.
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@jabberwock101 You make a good point. If someone takes the time to create an account and ask a question, then they want to learn and I should be encouraging that.
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@obsidianspider i enjoy helping others when they need it and i have some knowledge. Some things im wrong on but in the middle of the wrongs i got a few things ive learned and glad to share. I love people asking for help. I do get annoyed though by demanding it be plug and play and why they cant just install retropie and be playing games. But if they ask for help i am definitely glad to help.
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I also agree that it's good that Retropie is becoming more user friendly, as that can lead to more people picking this up in the first place. But underneath all of that, there is still plenty of scope to get into the nitty gritty of the Linux shell afterwards. If a feature you want doesn't exist, or you find it elsewhere and manage to get it added into your Pi build, then those people bring it to the forums and, if it's good enough, it finds its way into the official project.
I discovered this fantastically wonderful community just over a year ago, and I hadn't touched an emulator since about 2002 til then. I didn't own a Pi, I hadn't soldered past nearly destroying an iPod touch about 6 years ago, but Retropie changed that. I did ask a few questions on the forums, but I mostly figured stuff out myself via Google, the wiki or trial and error. And I'm glad I did, because I learnt so much about the platform, as well as how it all interacts with the hardware in the process.
I'll admit that there are an increase in questions asked here that show people up as being lazy, or unwilling to solve simple things themselves through reading the extensive documentation first, and that's what upsets me. The Pi should a learning tool as it was intended to be, I agree, but being too elitist about it will turn too many people off to this project which would be a shame. I can totally see the frustration of the likes of @BuZz and @herb_fargus when the same questions are asked that they've documented and answered a million times before, and also when people make demands of them to fix things as if they were on the forums of EA and they'd paid £90 for the latest FIFA.
But, please remember, that for every 2 or 3 of them, there's a kid who's picked this up and wants to learn. Also, who may be discovering a console that we grew up with, but that they've only heard there parents talk about.
Keep up the great work guys, we all appreciate it!
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People can expect just fun or boredom from a $35 computer.
My first Pi was a 256MB Pi B. It ran flawlessly XBMC but I expected just more and searched the internet what people can do with the Raspberry. Then I saw a small article: "The Raspberry Pi as the ultimate retro mashine" - Boom! The retro fever got me ... on the Pi. I used emulators since the late 90's and I think that's the point. For me the steps to RetroPie was just a new "operating system" but not the system how emulators run for principle.
But thank you all guys here for maintaining such a great system. It's always a joy to see more and more userfriendly tweaks even if some people see RetroPie as "self-service outlet" but these are luckily in a minority.
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I'm not a computer geek just like to tinker but I think that the raspberry pi is awesome! Very easy to set up, no problems a simple search would not solve!
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I think the Pi and RetroPie are incredible. It has taught me a lot about linux, and computers in general. I even like it's short coming because if the Pi foundation keeps upgrading the hardware every year it's a nice surprise to see what new consoles I can play and what runs better after the upgrade.
That being said you'll find people with legitimate critiques and suggestions which are important, but you'll also find people who will always find something to complain about, even if they lived in the Garden of Eden.
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I get annoyed all the time, especially when i see people complaining about speed issues i don't have, or reporting issues about a game which doesn't work just because they have a bad romset (that's explained everywhere but it seems google is their worst enemy), and asking me to deal with it (i'm in charge of fbalpha-libretro)
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As a 'newbie' here myself, I'm quite saddened to read some of the responses. The immediate effect those have is 'am I going to ask a stupid question?'. There may be a tonne of resources and how-to's online which are really helpful, but sometimes it just sits better to talk/converse with someone who has achieved what you're aiming for. Think of it as a flat pack Wardrobe-the instructions may be there and simply step by step: but talking to someone who may build these things for a living may reveal some improvements over the instructions, or knows that 'this may work better if'. You can't cover every eventuality, especially with software, so what may seem repetitive or frustrating to some, may be really frustrating or daunting to others. Everyone has to start somewhere.
I've ended up here through pricing exclusivity: I'm not a modern gamer at all, infact, looking at some of my hobbies and my music collection, it's clear I've not really moved on from the 80's/early 90's: so my gaming comfort zone is definitely the NES/SNES/Amiga camp. I reinstated my SNES late last year in a bid to collect some titles that I always wanted as a child but couldn't afford, and maybe revisit some older hardware. My what a shock I got online when I looked at the pricing. Carts alone selling for £50+. The games are classics, but eBay has made people greedy. So that was my idea down the pan. Then I stumbled across a guide online. I've been using Open Emu on my Mac, but it's not the same as sitting on my sofa with the surround sound on and a cuppa! The guide was about how to set up Retro Gaming on an RPi for under £50. A week later and there I am, RPi in hand with a handful of ROMS reliving my youth.
The point I'm making I guess is what it's opened up for me. I've always been intrigued by the RPi, but never really made the time to find a use for one-but now I have, and I love it. After delving (and getting lost) in the many sub menus within Retropie, it's made me not only appreciate the effort that has gone in to creating it, but has piqued my 'tinkering' interest. I'm looking through it, reading articles, researching etc and I actually feel really positive about having a go and getting a little more stuck in. I've been using a Mac since late '99 so yeah, getting stuck under the hood is never something I've had to worry about because Apple have made it an easy to use computer: but what I've never forgotten is the hours I used to spend on my Amiga 1200, creating boot menus and GUIs that gave you options upon disk insertion (that ultimately only ever led you to playing the game), but all the PD and Shareware disks I used to order from the back pages of the mags so I could create my own stuff. The RPi has reignited that excitement which is so cool: and as my daughter gets older, I can introduce her to the stuff Daddy played when he was little, sharing a bit more of my childhood with her. It's just so cool.
So, do I demand out of the box functionality being a newbie? No. Will I repeat a question that's already been asked at some point ? Yes. Do I do it because I'm lazy? No-I do it because I'm reaching out to the people that understand this the most.
When anything becomes popular you do see a surge in repetitive questions (I'm no stranger to forums), so I get it, but don't tar us all with the same brush. I want to learn and am happy to, I just don't always get to do it the way I'd like!
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No-one minds answering a question that may have been asked before, so long as someone looks like they have at least searched for it first - otherwise it's a waste of our time to have to keep repeating the same information over and over again.
For example, when registering on the forum users are asked to read https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first and agree to it. However it is obvious many don't, or just don't care. They then start a new topic with the subject "help" or similar, with something like "snes games don't work".
We cannot help people unless they are willing to a) help themselves as much as they can b) help us by at least providing the information we ask for.
To help us help you - please make sure you read the sticky topics before posting - https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first
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@BuZz if you had a penny for everytime you posted that....
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@BuZz I totally agree. In my first few days here, just looking through some of the topics posted there was a glut of first timers who'd posted topics along the lines of 'this doesn't work', 'why won't this' etc, and the first response they had was: read these rules, you haven't told us anything about your setup etc. So I get the frustration thing, I do. I think my post read a lot more sharp than intended.
I used to own a car that was an acquired taste when newer, and the forum I used was quite tight knit, but over the years as the value of he car decreased the new forum members started coming thicker and faster. It was a relatively simple car to work on, but the common faults were very common. So much so, we had stickys in every forum with guides to relating to those to avoid repeat posts etc. It did work, but not as often as we liked. But some stuck around and those were the ones that really gelled with the club and they got a lot out of it.
As mentioned earlier, we are in a 'everything just switches on and works' time: and people get frustrated when it doesn't do that. I think if you're the sort of person who has no patience and wants things to just work, then the RPi isn't for you, but if you have a bit of resilience and patience when things going wrong knowing that you probably won't get an immediate fix then stick around.
So in answer to the OPs question, then yes, now there is an increase in its popularity then there probably is too much expectation, but with the increase in its popularity there will also be an influx of people who genuinely are interested and what to learn (like myself for example), and those are the people that will kinda' embrace what the RPi was always meant to be.
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