Daphne Periodic Freeze Question

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Daphne Periodic Freeze Question:

@beastrow A heat sink should really help a lot.

Yeah it seems heat is more of an issue with the Pi 3 than it was with the 2. It's like the 3 was pushed to its limits with little overclock headroom, without going to extremes. For quick testing I use that same case Twitch uses in the video with a fan. I think the fan lowered it additional 18 to 20C, big difference. Inside my case I have a heatsink with a fan mounted on it. It's about 10mm's, just a little tiny thing. I would have snatched up a few more off Amazon but don't see them anymore. I also liked those tall copper heatsinks but don't see them either. It seems there's a lot of aluminum now.

That's a good point you might want to watch the upper right corner for colored squares, the red is overheating and the rainbow is signaling a power issue.

Riverstorm

@beastrow said in Daphne Periodic Freeze Question:

Possibly the overclock heating up and it throttling down again? If that's the case, I have heat sinks getting here on Wednesday.

I think 85C is the threshold for auto downclocking but it's adjustable in the config.txt too.

Here's a script I "borrowed" to watch my speed and temps through SSH while playing. :)

#!/bin/bash
cpuSpeed0=$(cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq)
cpuSpeed1=$(($cpuSpeed0/1000))

cpuTemp0=$(cat /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp)
cpuTemp1=$(($cpuTemp0/1000))
cpuTemp2=$(($cpuTemp0/100))
cpuTempM=$(($cpuTemp2 % $cpuTemp1))

gpuTemp0=$(/opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp)
gpuTemp0=${gpuTemp0//\'/°}
gpuTemp0=${gpuTemp0//temp=/}

echo
echo CPU Speed: $cpuSpeed1" MHz"
echo
echo CPU Temp: $cpuTemp1"."$cpuTempM"°C"
echo GPU Temp: $gpuTemp0

Finhead

@beastrow said in Daphne Periodic Freeze Question:

Thanks guys... MOST helpful!

So, using another site, I've overclocked to the following:

arm_freq=1350
over_voltage=5
gpu_freq=550

#sdram overclock
sdram_freq=550
sdram_schmoo=0x02000020
over_voltage_sdram_p=6
over_voltage_sdram_i=4
over_voltage_sdram_c=4

It's definitely running better, (or seems to be - have only tested one game so far), but I did, eventually, have the same issue. Possibly the overclock heating up and it throttling down again? If that's the case, I have heat sinks getting here on Wednesday.

Not sure why your having the pause issue. I don't have mine overclocked at all and have no issues with the 3 roms I use DL, DL2 and SA. What is the rating on your powersupply? I know from reading the Pi3 is power hungry and needs a full 2.5 amps to run properly.

caver01

@beastrow I haven't had to do any of those temp+performance tweaks. The Pi3 has been fast enough using stock settings in RetroPie 3.6 image without any any slowdown in Daphne at all. Arcade games that were previously choppy on older Pi hardware also run well (games like Golden Tee 2k, Mortal Kombat 2,3 etc.), and many of them are now running the CRT-PI shader with scanlines and curvature.

Regarding the heat sink, @Riverstorm a tiny fan is great, but how are you holding it on? The Pi3 doesn't have a good spot to clamp stuff down. For my sink, I had a big square of aluminum fingers-style from an ancient CPU (maybe an old Pentium?) laying around, so I just cut a piece to size and cleaned it very smooth using 600 grit sandpaper on glass. My sink isn't even very high--maybe a 3/8". Then, a dab of ArcticSilver thermal compound to hold it and get good heat transfer and that's it. I really don't think it takes much. I haven't had a single heat issue since doing this.

Finhead

@caver01 I see you directed that at me? "Regarding the heat sink, @Finhead a tiny fan is great, "

I don't run any kind of heatsink or fan on my RPi3 so I'm not sure why you tagged me, I have zero issues stock no overclock no fan no heatsink.

caver01

@Finhead Sorry. Meant to mention @Riverstorm

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Daphne Periodic Freeze Question:

Regarding the heat sink, @Finhead a tiny fan is great, but how are you holding it on?

Caver is the AS5 itself creating "suction" to hold it in place?

I tried lapping heatsinks (regular computer) but find the work/gain ratio pretty low. My brother does auto-body work on the side so I can get a hold of some pretty high grit sand paper and the final lap was all wet sanding. Looked almost like a mirror but the temp gain was only a degree or two. I find making sure the spring loaded screws providing "even" pressure turned out to be more important. Push/pull fan config. was the same it's a degree or two but hey each degree counts when you're tweaking. :)

This is what I am using but no longer available. I liked these little guys.

Raspberry Pi copper heatsink with fan

Finhead

@Riverstorm
Google search brings these up, pretty high price for few degs

caver01

Yeah, you use very little thermal paste and it sticks fine, but I'd feel better if I had a way to keep it secure since my PI mounts upside down in my cabinet. So far it hasn't moved, but it could. According to the manufacturer, the compound changes over time, which I seem to recall means that it hardens somewhat, but it's never going to be like glue.

Looks like your little fan/sink is stuck on with a self adhesive tape. Maybe that works better. I think it probably sticks better, but may not transfer heat as well. I'd like to rig up a gizmo to secure it--maybe something with zip ties. I hate to spend more $ on it. The only reason I was sanding was because I was reusing part of an old sink. I had to completely clean it of old , crusty compound. Flatter is better, but the compound helps fill in microscopic gaps.

I really wish my Pi3 wasn't running hot. I have read reports that some do, some don't.

Riverstorm

@Finhead said in Daphne Periodic Freeze Question:

@Riverstorm
Google search brings these up, pretty high price for few degs

Ouch, yeah at that price point it's hard to justify. They know they have a decent product. They are as bad as pay day lenders interest rates. The cost is almost 72% of the whole Pi! I appreciate the link. I had no idea they were still available.

Finhead

@caver01 said in Daphne Periodic Freeze Question:

Yeah, you use very little thermal paste and it sticks fine, but I'd feel better if I had a way to keep it secure since my PI mounts upside down in my cabinet. So far it hasn't moved, but it could. According to the manufacturer, the compound changes over time, which I seem to recall means that it hardens somewhat, but it's never going to be like glue.

Looks like your little fan/sink is stuck on with a self adhesive tape. Maybe that works better. I think it probably sticks better, but may not transfer heat as well. I'd like to rig up a gizmo to secure it--maybe something with zip ties. I hate to spend more $ on it. The only reason I was sanding was because I was reusing part of an old sink. I had to completely clean it of old , crusty compound. Flatter is better, but the compound helps fill in microscopic gaps.

I really wish my Pi3 wasn't running hot. I have read reports that some do, some don't.

I was going to use some of this for a heatsink if I had issues with heat, so far I haven't.

beastrow

I ordered Arctic Silver thermal adhesive to go with my heat sinks. Don't have experience with them in terms of products that hold the heat sink on by themselves, but I've had good PC CPU experience with Arctic Silver as a company.

@Finhead - My Power supply is Canakit 2.5A Micro USB Power Supply. I ordered the Pi 3 on Amazon and the deal I got came with the supply. I've now overclocked the board AND the mini SD port. Things are definitely running better, but I still got the freezes, (just a little further in).

I'm starting to think it could very well be the memory card. It's rated acceptably in terms of specs, but is on the generic side. Makes me wonder if it has speed issues.

Finhead

@beastrow Could be. This is the card I switched to, Samsung Evo Pro very happy with it.

caver01

Someone with experience probably should weigh-in on this this, but there is definitely a difference between thermal compound and thermal adhesive. The adhesives are permanent, usually 2-part products like epoxy. If you go to Acrtic Silver website, they don't recommend the adhesives for CPUs. They recommend compounds. @Finhead 's link above is to a product that has an ambiguous name. Is it Arctic Silver, or is it Arctic Alumina? They have Arctic Silver Compound, Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive, and Alumina Thermal Adhesive, but not Arctic Silver Alumina Thermal Adhesive.

Anyway, the Alumina appears to be recommended for CPU, but not their Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive. I am probably splitting hairs. Maybe it doesn't really matter in the end and either product will conduct heat to the sink properly.

Riverstorm

@beastrow said in Daphne Periodic Freeze Question:

I'm starting to think it could very well be the memory card. It's rated acceptably in terms of specs, but is on the generic side. Makes me wonder if it has speed issues.

Did you try and set the governor to "performance" at least for testing?

I know there's a lot of cards that work well that people could share. I've had good luck with SanDisk Ultra, Ultra PLUS, and Extreme PLUS.

Is the adhesive removable and expoy permanent? I prefer something that's not permanent if possible as I like to reuse the heatsinks and then pass the old Pi's along to whoever wants them. I usually order 3 or 4 from each gen.

Caver that's funny. I can appreciate splitting hairs. I do it all the time when it's probably unnecessary but I can't help it and sometimes it makes for some interesting and educational conversation. I try to embrace my "faults", as well as, my strengths. Now those programmers, they are a different breed that have to think very logical and methodical which spills over into real life! ;)

beastrow

@caver01 Given that the adhesive was not that expensive and I have a ton of regular Arctic Silver lying around from my last PC build, I think I'll give the plain Silver a go first and see how it does. I'll report back on how it does in terms of staying affixed, etc.

@Riverstorm Haven't messed with the governor yet, but that will be my next step, (I had to back off of the other overclocks, as they were killing my WiFi for some reason - not sure of the logic/reason, but as soon as I turned off the SD overclock, it came back). As far as the card, Amazon has a well rated UHS-I SanDisk that I'm eyeing - http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDXC-Standard-Packaging-SDSQUNC-064G-GN6MA/dp/B010Q588D4/ref=dp_ob_title_ce . I looked at a couple of UHS-II cards, but figured it was pointless, as the port wouldn't really utilize the full capabilities. Anyhow, I might get that card and transfer everything and give it a whirl this weekend, (I will also have heat sinks, fan-cooled case, etc., in place by then).

(Edited for wrong card being posted initially)

Riverstorm

@beastrow said in Daphne Periodic Freeze Question:

@caver01 Given that the adhesive was not that expensive and I have a ton of regular Arctic Silver lying around from my last PC build, I think I'll give the plain Silver a go first and see how it does. I'll report back on how it does in terms of staying affixed, etc.

@Riverstorm Haven't messed with the governor yet, but that will be my next step, (I had to back off of the other overclocks, as they were killing my WiFi for some reason - not sure of the logic/reason, but as soon as I turned off the SD overclock, it came back). As far as the card, Amazon has a well rated UHS-I SanDisk that I'm eyeing - http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDXC-Standard-Packaging-SDSQUNC-064G-GN6MA/dp/B010Q588D4/ref=dp_ob_title_ce . I looked at a couple of UHS-II cards, but figured it was pointless, as the port wouldn't really utilize the full capabilities. Anyhow, I might get that card and transfer everything and give it a whirl this weekend, (I will also have heat sinks, fan-cooled case, etc., in place by then).

(Edited for wrong card being posted initially)

I have one of those cards and it works fine. The governor tweak fixed an issue with a N64 game stuttering. It's actually quite useful.

Here's my overclock. I had it set to 1350 but compiling Daphne caused it to crash possibly due to multiple cores in use vs a single core usually for game emulation. I backed it down to 1300 with an overvolt=4 and it's been stable for everything so far.

Looking forward to your results.

#Overclock Settings
arm_freq=1300
over_voltage=4
temp_limit=80
core_freq=500

#GPU Based
h264_freq=333
avoid_pwm_pll=1
gpu_mem=450
v3d_freq=500

#Ram Overclock
sdram_freq=588
sdram_schmoo=0x02000020
over_voltage_sdram_p=6
over_voltage_sdram_i=4
over_voltage_sdram_c=4

beastrow

Well, so far, the heat sinks and governor adjustment have not fixed the issue, unfortunately. I have the old memory card transferring to the new as I type this and will give that a whirl to see if it does anything. If not, I will try your benchmarking script to see if that can help determine what might be going on. I may also post video to YouTube to show the issue.

beastrow

So, heat sinks, governor adjustment, case with fan, new memory card, and no change to the issue. Upgrading to the newly released 3.8 right now, but don't necessarily expect that it will change anything. Will update and, hopefully, make a YouTube video as soon as I have a chance.

beastrow

Alright, here's a video of the freeze in action:

You'll see it twice in this Dragon's Lair video, but it's also doing it in Space Ace and Cliffhanger. I'm now running with a new, faster mini SD, heat sinks and fan, and the governor opened up, so I'm more confused than ever. I'm working tonight and will try the speed/temp SSH script that @Riverstorm posted tomorrow.