mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support

Riverstorm

You'll need a little more than current MAME and the rollback. You also need a handful of unofficial ROMs for some decrypted, demo and free play games. It's worth the time to find them as arcadez has added some real gems and updated classics with more accurate game play.

If you want to be posh, if you will, ;) and 100% complete check out the OST's added by KMFDManic and grant. They are a very nice complement to games like Double Dragon, Final Fight, Mortal Kombat, Moonwalker, NBA Jam and Outrun.

I think they are in the DAT so you'll have to find them or be ok with set errors. I know some people can be real nutters when it comes to incomplete sets, they just can't stand seeing the report of a few missing ROMs.

It seems the stereo versions are a little more challenging to find but the mono are fairly easy. I think the custom OST's will become more widely available soon though, so keep an eye out.

The mono version will play either the left or right channel bilateral and the stereo is basically split-stereo that is remixed on the fly (they are named identical but suffixed with a "-1" and "-2", for left/right channels respectfully. Some of the 16-bit stereo versions are over 300MB but they are easy to resize and keep the original intact if running on an NES mini or other limited resource console.

I wouldn't worry to much about the CHD's pending your platform of choice and ability to rum them but I I think they are only around 16GB which is relatively small as current CHD's plus rollback CHDs combined are like 600 or 700GB. A current MAME complete set is so big now it has its own drive, I think it's around 1TB without extras.

arcadez2003

Believe it or not dev still continues on this core just a wee update from me to let ya's all know you can now play the most requested
"and up until now hoarded" Arcade game in the history of emulation using MAME2003+

Marble Madness II

Ashpool

@arcadez2003 Don't forget to mention Megumi Rescue ;] Had just read yesterday about marblmd2 and megrescu in the FBNeo Thread andthen I noticed that they are also within the current mame2003plus datfile ;)
My Guess is in current Mame they will appear in the next incarnation (0.245) ;)

arcadez2003

@Ashpool said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

@arcadez2003 Don't forget to mention Megumi Rescue ;] Had just read yesterday about marblmd2 and megrescu in the FBNeo Thread andthen I noticed that they are also within the current mame2003plus datfile ;)
My Guess is in current Mame they will appear in the next incarnation (0.245) ;)

I didn't think anyone would bother :) but yes Megumi Rescue is a decent wee game which is also now playable in MAME2003+ as i added support
for it last week nice game i like it mind and press the button to make the fireman dive through the windows

Ashpool

By the way: I ever wanted to ask this, but somehow I always forgot to actually do it...

Besides the changelog mentioning updated/added "games", is there a database or some reference where we can check about the "state/rough mame version equivalence" of the roms in Mame2003Plus? So that we may cross reference within the Mameinfo Metadata whether certain roms may better be played using a more recent core? Just looking at the driver/emulation/graphic/sound states within the mame###.xml ain't helpfull here (just thinking about the cases where former driver: good states where changed to driver: preliminary, etc.). Or are the "drivers"/"implementations from"/"developments for" mame2003+ simply not comparable/locatable to a certain version/timestamp within mames history?

Riverstorm

@Ashpool - I'm not sure if this helps for what you're looking for but it's a compatibility table, of the state, of each ROM in the core.

The core base comes from 0.78 is about as close as you'll get. Through the years several hundred games have been added/updated based on what the devs can make work on the old drivers in the core.

Riverstorm

@Ashpool - Here's a rough MAME equivalent version for each Libretro core. I think current MAME has also been ported but I've never tried it.

mame2000 (based on MAME 0.37b5)
mame2003 (based on MAME 0.78)
mame2003-plus (based on MAME 0.78 + additions)
mame2010 (based on MAME 0.139)
mame2015 (based on MAME 0.160)
mame2016 (based on MAME 0.174)

Ashpool

@Riverstorm Thanks, sounds like I "feared" that the information from mameinfo.dat ain't a usable reference in regards to mame2003+. To be more precise of what I had in mind, here is an example: If I look at the mameinfo data for llander1 (for reference here via the arcade database, the maminfo.dat information is on the info tab), I'm inclined to say that I want to use at least a mame version of .141u2, better .153 or even .190/.198 for that rom ... now, if llander1 would be (it ain't) among mame2003+ changelog list for games now fixed (or whatever), it would be nice to get some clue of where in this mameinfo.dat changelog it could be placed. Was just a thought, and no big deal if those thoughts where in a not-possible zone. [Edit: Well, at least one may assume (?) that each game mentioned within the changelog ain't .78 anymore]

barbudreadmon

@Ashpool https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-plus-libretro/commits/master/src/drivers/asteroid.c => there should be no major change from how it was in 0.78.

Riverstorm

@Ashpool - Ah, ok, yeah it's much less "formal". It's basically one long string of commits. There's no official change list between builds/commits with version numbers to help make an educated decision on the best version(s).

They have over 4,000 commits. You can see half dozen changes one day down to none for several in a row. They add and tweak games here and there when they have time.

You could search pull requests something like is:pr is:closed llander and see there have been some updates to llander but that's not quite as handy. There's nothing quite as organized like in mameinfo.dat.

If I remember someone built a fairly extensive spreadsheet of games, based on which emulator works best for each game. That's in the context of RetroPie supported emulators but I don't have the link off hand. I suppose that changes over time too! :-)

Riverstorm

@Ashpool - Or Barbudreadmon has another good suggestion! :)

barbudreadmon

@Riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

If I remember someone built a fairly extensive spreadsheet of games, based on which emulator works best for each game.

You are probably refering to @roslof's spreadsheet.

Ashpool

@Riverstorm As I had hoped to express in my above post... llander1 was just an example and I was aware of the fact that it still is .78 stuff... but it was the 1st rom that came to my mind to use it as an example in regards to the mameinfo stuff... could as well have used indytemp or others... for one that is in the changelog of m2k3+ it could have been lupin3, but even if the changelog mentions it under "Games now with Sound" it lists sampleof "invaders" in the current listxml.dat, I can deduct -> better then .78, as that had no sampleset, but less then .147u3 as that changed the sampleof to "lupin3"... Oh well, and sorry - I am expanding on a topic which is answered by now. And your explanation about the development/commits was also helpfull to understand the whies of it.

Riverstorm

@barbudreadmon - Yeah, that's it, thank you! :)

@Ashpool - I agree that kind of "intermediate" build detail currently happening on these forlonged cores would be quite useful. But since it's all for-the-love-of-it volunteer work I think the devs mostly put their energy and focus into development vs. documenting...not saying someone couldn't add it for the benefit of all, it's on Github, a perfect spot for it under metadata! ;)

If you're using RetroPie you could check out the spreadsheet link @barbudreadmon posted above as a potential starting point. @roslof's spreadsheet has always been impressive from the sheer amount of time he put into testing each game to find a decent running version/emulator.

I don't know...but I think with these old patch work of cores, it's down to elbow grease and a bit of spit and shine to build that "perfect" game roster! ;)

Riverstorm

@Ashpool - One other thought (sorry to make assumptions), was the target hardware is the Pi 4 or some similar low power device. I always assume RetroPie (thanks to their grace for an amazing piece of software) targets a niche demographic, well a pretty large one. Due to it's multi-faceted, multi-platform, arcade, console, DOS, porting, retro-gaming support all-in-one game--jack knife utility! Whew...they're gonna have to steal the Nethack slogan, "the devs thought of everything"...

Anyway I think if you're running "contemporary" hardware there are more elegant solutions to running MAME with fantastic results. Funny thing is most days I still prefer the tinkering on the Pi to get these old cores chugging along with some less than perfect game satisfactorily, hence the spreadsheet posted above.

Ashpool

@Riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

@Ashpool - One other thought (sorry to make assumptions), was the target hardware is the Pi 4 or some similar low power device. I always assume RetroPie (thanks to their grace for an amazing piece of software) targets a niche demographic, well a pretty large one. Due to it's multi-faceted, multi-platform, arcade, console, DOS, porting, retro-gaming support all-in-one game--jack knife utility! Whew...they're gonna have to steal the Nethack slogan, "the devs thought of everything"...

Ok, You've got me there... I was still building up my reply to some former posts... but your wording here is somewhat in grip of what I was trying to express ;>

@Riverstorm Yup, that spreadsheet was new to me and a good resource added in my bookmarks ;) My intention instead was not based on a use case for a specific system/install, but instead somewhat more general - I am not interested in best performance/or whatsoever on a certain system, but instead I want(ed) to check the (min. version of emulator) for the most accurate emulation for now (even if that would mean that I cannot run it on a Pi 3/4, or even my desktop pcs, nor in current mame) available for that rom. As history has shown driver/emulation/color/graphic/whatsoever states within the listxml changed from greed to yellow or red and for some they still remain on ~not_good...

And here I noticed your reply whilst I was typing my answer... so shortcut: I am just a metadata hungry junky, I am not asking about a certain environment/system/whatsoever for a certain game... it is just my interest to get a personal mind map of what game/what system/what state to be played (if at all or wait) on what emulator/simulator/hardware and therefore the question where m2k3+ roms may be located... and sadly there are still many where I am not sure if any emulator will perform like the machine I played in my childhood (Indytemp, Astron Belt (ok, that is not MAME for now), etc.)...

Riverstorm

@Ashpool - Ok that makes sense. One quick question. Are you saying the mame2003-plus DAT has incorrect metadata on the game status? If so I think the devs over on Github would find it useful. They try and keep the DAT correct and current and have done a decent job. If I read it wrong or if you meant "generally speaking" of DATs, disregard.

https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-plus-libretro

and sadly there are still many where I am not sure if any emulator will perform like the machine I played in my childhood (Indytemp, Astron Belt...

Sadly no game performs like nostalgia! ;)

barbudreadmon

@Ashpool said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

there are still many where I am not sure if any emulator will perform like the machine I played in my childhood

As said elsewhere, MAME2003+ is about performance/accuracy compromises.
Current MAME and FBNeo are more likely to be faithful to the original hardware if that's what you are specifically looking for.

Riverstorm

@barbudreadmon said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

As said elsewhere, MAME2003+ is about performance/accuracy compromises.
Current MAME and FBNeo are more likely to be faithful to the original hardware if that's what you are specifically looking for.

@barbudreadmon - I don't know if you agree with that or just quoting but could you clarify a question if you do?

I always think mame2003+ is based on MAME 0.78 official code. A majority of the code and 95% of the ROMs are original. Why is mame2003+ less faithful than FBNeo? I know with the additions some are hacky to get them running and others backport seamlessly and seem to play perfectly but mostly it's original.

I would consider current MAME the benchmark and they always seem to be perpetually tweaking, adding, changing and improving drivers.

Does FBNeo follow the MAME in similar coding? Does it go back and add the updates and tweaks that MAME adds in every revision to stay current as to be lumped into the same class as official MAME or maybe FBNeo just does things better than official MAME?

I know of some very specific examples but beyond cherry picking examples and focusing on the bigger picture of 5,000+ ROMs. I basically load up ROMs in mame2003+ and just enjoy them and find they play reasonably well. I just don't see a big enough difference for a majority of games. There's some games in the mame2003+ that aren't in FBNeo and vice versa so I use both cores. On low spec hardware it's a winning combo (or trio if you count AdvMAME ;) for a majority of my needs.

When it comes to vector games I just prefer AdvMAME. I think it can fine tune the vector lines a bit better than mame2003+. I don't know if RP ever fixed AdvMAME (I think it was slow) but I found a commit prior, made some minor tweaks, loaded all my ROMs and made an image. That is mainly what I use when I play vector games.

I'm not trying to challenge you because I know what you do (I've opened an issue or two with broken games on Github and you/the group always get them fixed) but anyway I was hoping for a better understanding if there's a reasonably straight forward answer because every time you write something similar I ask myself why would that be true.

barbudreadmon

@Riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

Why is mame2003+ less faithful than FBNeo?

FBNeo's goal is to be just as accurate as current MAME, and it's sometimes better, it'll rarely make compromises about accuracy. MAME2003+ is more performance oriented and usually won't include fixes that would have a major negative impact on performance.

@Riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

Does FBNeo follow the MAME in similar coding?

It doesn't, FBNeo's framework has less overhead, hence why it's usually faster.

@Riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support:

Does it go back and add the updates and tweaks that MAME adds in every revision to stay current

If an update is necessary and we are aware of it, and it goes both ways.