mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support

robertvb83

@grant2258 ok i get that, so all subtypes are only meant to be used for arcade panels?

do you get my point that i want my pad as
345
126

robertvb83

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

D for

we are talkin about arcade panels here not control pads they are both different. you talking about control pads or arcade panels robert?

ideally both :-D because i have two arcade panels for players 1 and 2 plus two SNES controllers for players 3 and 4

grant2258

@robertvb83

well snes pads will be mapped like i showed above when you pick 6 panel for snes physical controler

and the arcade is mapped to
123
456
with a 6 panel

arcade panels have the buttons in a row so they can do the 123 a snes pad cant.

look in the options menu you pick retropad type per controller now

@robertvb83 i told mark to name snes to snes/6panel in snes pad it maps like it aalways did in arcade mapping it maps to
123
456

robertvb83

@grant2258 yes i know but none of the types fit to my needs...

i would pretty much use the old classic for my arcade pad AND my SNES controllers
345
YXL
BAR
126

grant2258

@robertvb83 well youll need to speak to mark about adding that option you really dont like original arcade layouts ? It doesnt effect control pads. Ive never seen somone wanted the panels laid out as a gamepad instead of the original layout

robertvb83

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

123
YXL
BAR
456
is an arcade panel layout

snes pads have a different physical layout they dont have 3 buttons in a row when you bind in retroach 6 pannel look like this on a snes pad
3         6
l          R
   1 2 
   y x
   b a
   4 5


this is what i mean you want to emulate your snes pad instead of an arcade panel

why do i have the feeling that i really dont understand. Why was this thing calles SNES type? Who would ever use this for their SNES controller? Just imagine your super mario games on snes, it can only be

5         6
l          R
   34 
   y x
   b a
   12

grant2258

@robertvb83 snes is the sf2 layout for mame on a snes pad i didnt choose it :)

robertvb83

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@robertvb83 well youll need to speak to mark about adding that option you really dont like original arcade layouts ? It doesnt effect control pads. Ive never seen somone wanted the panels laid out as a gamepad instead of the original layout

we need a chatroom grant :-)

i just want to make it very clear, i feel it is hard to get a common understanding

and now im ONLY talking about arcade panel

i like arcade layouts! very much but i want to play one button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
1xx

i like to play 2 button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
12x

i like to play 3 button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
123

i like to play 4 button games (and here i physically HAVE to end arcade in-a-row controls!)
34x
YXL
BAR
12x

i like to play 6 button games
123
YXL
BAR
456

so as you see above the BEST fit to cover them all would be
345
YXL
BAR
123

6 Button fighters would be special and manual

grant2258

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@robertvb83 well youll need to speak to mark about adding that option you really dont like original arcade layouts ? It doesnt effect control pads. Ive never seen somone wanted the panels laid out as a gamepad instead of the original layout

we need a chatroom grant :-)

i just want to make it very clear, i feel it is hard to get a common understanding

and now im ONLY talking about arcade panel

i like arcade layouts! very much but i want to play one button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
1xx

i like to play 2 button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
12x

i like to play 3 button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
123

i like to play 4 button games (and here i physically HAVE to end arcade in-a-row controls!)
34x
YXL
BAR
12x

i like to play 6 button games
123
YXL
BAR
456

so as you see above the BEST fit to cover them all would be
345
YXL
BAR
123

6 Button fighters would be special and manual

if that your final option if its ok with mark we can add that for you .

as 6button_retropie. However will adapt to popular demand

the 6 panel
123
456
will remain though for people that want a normal type arcade. That panel you suggested wouldnt suit me for a 6 button i dont use a 6 button other users with 6 buttons can all get together and come up with a retropie 6 button setup then we can do a poll the most popular one get in sound fair?

markwkidd

I honestly find these conversations of button layouts to be very difficult to process cognitively. I get frustrated and I lose mental track of what is where. That is the story of the last month. Thank you all for being persistent and hashing through this complex issue.

"abstractions to abstractions to abstractions" is not really a joke. It's freakin complicated.

grant2258

there is no abstactions here mark its just mame buttons

123
456

markwkidd

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

there is no abstactions here mark its just mame buttons

123
456

Those are abstractions according to my definition. :pshaw: (Except when the original control board labeled them that way, which of course some did.)

"Roundhouse Kick" is real.. all else is a dream.hehe

robertvb83

@grant2258 thanks man that would be super awesome!

i would not agree to call that a normal arcade layout because real arcade machines only have the number of buttons that the game needs and naturally 6 button arcade machines usually where the sf2 type machines. But if us retro people build arcade machines we need to come up with a one suits all approach and i really think most people would use what i depicted in my previous posting or chose an 8 Button layout with
xxxx
1234
for all games up to 4 buttons and
123x
456x
for those 6 button games.

so even if you would include an 8 button layout you would only need one additional subtype for above described

grant2258

@markwkidd well let the guys in the forum decide on a retopie 6 button we poll it and implement it as a retropie 6 button layout. We have a suggested default and we will have the retropie suggested default too. Seems the fairest way to do it

robertvb83

@grant2258 just think about it controlling metal slug like
123
456
is just insane :-D

@markwkidd said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

I honestly find these conversations of button layouts to be very difficult to process cognitively. I get frustrated and I lose mental track of what is where. That is the story of the last month. Thank you all for being persistent and hashing through this complex issue.

"abstractions to abstractions to abstractions" is not really a joke. It's freakin complicated.

haha very well expressed, i also feel that way :-)

btw i would be honored to have my own subtype coded in mame :-D

now i'll have a beer and play some awesome games

grant2258

@robertvb83

meta slug used button abc

in the neogeo arcade thats 123 tht is the button order in the coin op. Just imaging playing it on n arcade instead of a control pad as well meet half way :). I have no objection to making your suggestion the new retropie 6 button standard if no one else has any preferences if they do it will be a poll :) the people will choose the retropie arcade 6 and 8 panel layout and us a default as well sounds fair to me that way everyone gets a say.

so new suggested retropie 6 button arcade layout so far is (mame button numbers)
@robertvb83
345
123

@Riverstorm
456
123

default suggested layout
(reason for the layout its sf2 layout correct and neogeo is accurate up to 3 buttons layout wise)
123
456

8 button layout

my retropie setup suggestion for 8 panel ( notice its not default because it changes punches and kick rows in sf2 )
@grant2258
4 5 6
1 2 3 4
(reason i prefer my main buttons at the bottom to rest my palms on the panel)

suggested default for neo geo/cps/other (currently not set in code)
1 2 3 4
4 5 6

we will add new ideas to this list then poll it

its also worth keeping in mind this is just general default changes per game can still be done or globally so your not stuck to this layout its just a sensible all rounder to fit most games working and this is only arcade panels gamepad controler issues are seperatre you need to specify and arcade panel or gamepad issue

robertvb83

@grant2258 i never get why someone would use sf2 as basis because this is in context of mame 0,1%. I like to make basis as what i use most and specify per game for specials...

and obviously you too chose the bottom row as primary because its more comfortable and i think this is quite common and most people use this
(btw. later Metal slug use abcd)

markwkidd

Specifically about Neo Geo: I think if you are using a control panel that has three buttons per row and you are emulating a system that had a four-button row, it's reasonable at that point to need a per-directory controls override, or a set of per-game overrides.

When it comes to remaps, one thing that is nice about RetroArch is that someone can post a standard 'Neo Geo to 6-Button' remap file that can be dropped in as a per-directory or per-game configuration file by other people.

What we're shooting for is a flexible enough set of baselines so that the majority of people can play the majority of games with their controller on the default settings. However if it starts to need an override of some kind for more than half of games, something has to be improved.

If the baseline set of layouts is in place -- to be determined -- then we could start thinking about "controller remap packs" which I have just invented as a term. I'm liking the sound of more and more.

grant2258

@robertvb83 the truth is you dont have 4 buttons in a row its always going to be a compromise.

some people might prefer your layout some people might prefer the suggested default and some other people might prefer something completely different.

your suggestion is on the list and its the only one so far. I will add this if everyone wants it. I just would prefer user get input on the retropies defaults and its polled if one needs chosen. I dont want to decide what everyone controls are i just use the most sane fit in arcade terms that i can see and users can can decide together what they want if they dont say nothing you will be the default 6 panel for retropie.

like mark said you can still changed buttons in varies ways globally per game or per folder this is just a starting format.

grant2258

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@grant2258 i never get why someone would use sf2 as basis because this is in context of mame 0,1%. I like to make basis as what i use most and specify per game for specials...

and obviously you too chose the bottom row as primary because its more comfortable and i think this is quite common and most people use this
(btw. later Metal slug use abcd)

yes i agree but it isint the best fit all round logically negeo and cps are mapped right the default way