MESS Version?

Folly

It is my understanding that if all three are available at the same time, then the SL90025 and SL31254 combo takes priority

I looked at the Bios files and indeed they contain the same files only the name is different.

Folly

@fdr4prez

I found these homebrews :

pi@raspberrypi:~/RetroPie/roms/channelf $ sha1sum *.bin
726676f0a204d05f8c2f754d6369cc384c3b7925  2048_F8.bin
87353ed1e8794f68378e16634908fe08c215f51c  centipede_CF_101.bin
f01a3956ec1d39018541a7be731776eaee191914  tents_CF.bin
4011a0361bd6aa457b7fa7d2b52516a9337893fb  pacman_b10.bin
c47579fed1fd533f18c679444a2cf4ef7f394ab5  pacman_b11.bin
94c1920dd9ca875d60f75c8e6669ea99df8ea687  pacman_b14.bin
633de00bb19b8dcc41658ba9601a3393aa044cf6  pacman_b28.bin

Do you have the same or are there more ?

fdr4prez

@Folly

Even though I've not placed the BIOS files anywhere, I decided to run a game (knowing it'll fail), and so when it attempted to start there was a prompt that there isn't a default emulator that has been chosen, so it wants me to pick one. I am now presented with a list of 18 to pick from. Do you have any suggestions/recommendations for which to use as a default.

I would not use the lr-runmess runcommand.
I will work but is an en-heritage of the Valerino fork and it will create a temporary .cmd file and then load that file with lr-mess.

If your software is in the mame hash table you can use :

mame-channelf-basename (softload with mame standalone)

lr-mess-channelf-basename (softload with lr-mess retroarch libretro core)

If your software isn't in the mame hash table you can use :

mame-channelf-cart (load cartridge with mame standalone without sotfloading)

lr-mess-channelf-cart (load cartridge with lr-mess retroarch libretro core without sotfloading)

Thanks, the hash table looks to be very short, so why bother using the "softload with..." when there are many things not in the list, and certianly nothing new will be in there?

I think I'll try and use "...without softloading" for everything just to keep it simple. Thoughts?

Depending on the mame roms and your computer some drivers are slower than others therefor you can select the runcommands with :

autoframeskip

frameskip_10

Game specific will make separate driver configs for the individual game loaded in lr-mess or mame.
So you can change controls or video settings for each game individually.
Mostly used by advanced users or when you learn more about how it works.

Thanks. I have a little better understanding now of all these options. Since my build is only for Channel F, and the system and games are not so complex and demanding, then hopefully we don't need use these advanced configurations. It is just a few of the newest homebrew games that are bigger than normal that we had trouble with; otherwise we were quite happy with advmame3 and the advmess it contains. Too bad it is such an old rev of software.

so I will do some experiments with these, if needed.

Obviously the first would be to pick either lr-mess or mame, but more importantly there are so many sub-choices to pick from. Is there a webpage, somewhere, that can help explain the differences between all these?

For the build that I am making for him, it will be dedicated to Channel F, but for my personal previous retropie builds, I've never used anything "lr"... I use the standalone Stella, jzintv, coolcv, etc. So is there any reason to use "lr-mess" instead of "mame" for Channel F?

We are using the original controllers, so they don't even have Start and Select buttons, so we know a keyboard will be needed for the 5 console buttons and to quit the game. we are ok with this.

in advmess we mapped them:

He plans to get a little 7-button keyboard to attach to his Pi case:

So if i can easily remap lr-mess or mame accordingly, then we will be happy.

If you feel something is missing such as the explanation of the runcommands I can add it to post 1.
Let me know.

Thanks, I am new to this mame and mess stuff, and I really appreciate the help.

fdr4prez

@Folly said in MESS Version?:

@fdr4prez

I found these homebrews :

pi@raspberrypi:~/RetroPie/roms/channelf $ sha1sum *.bin
726676f0a204d05f8c2f754d6369cc384c3b7925  2048_F8.bin
87353ed1e8794f68378e16634908fe08c215f51c  centipede_CF_101.bin
f01a3956ec1d39018541a7be731776eaee191914  tents_CF.bin
4011a0361bd6aa457b7fa7d2b52516a9337893fb  pacman_b10.bin
c47579fed1fd533f18c679444a2cf4ef7f394ab5  pacman_b11.bin
94c1920dd9ca875d60f75c8e6669ea99df8ea687  pacman_b14.bin
633de00bb19b8dcc41658ba9601a3393aa044cf6  pacman_b28.bin

Do you have the same or are there more ?

There are many smaller homebrew posted on AtariAge, and a few other places, that are publicly released. Those all seem to work in my previous attempt with advmess that is in the advmame3.

but the newer big ones that have the trouble in the advmame 3, are not publicly released at this point.

for sure this one does not work in the older advmess used in the advmame3:

https://forums.atariage.com/topic/331068-fs-fairchild-video-entertainment-system-channel-f-videocart-29-the-arlasoft-collection

At this point I am not at liberty to discuss the others because I don't want to break the trust of the developer and publisher

Folly

@fdr4prez said in MESS Version?:

For the build that I am making for him, it will be dedicated to Channel F, but for my personal previous retropie builds, I've never used anything "lr"... I use the standalone Stella, jzintv, coolcv, etc. So is there any reason to use "lr-mess" instead of "mame" for Channel F?

No, not really I think you only need Mame standalone.

With retroarch/libretro-cores you can use shaders and overlays if you want and there are many other settings you can play with.
Though there are also some disadvantages.

We are using the original controllers, so they don't even have Start and Select buttons, so we know a keyboard will be needed for the 5 console buttons and to quit the game. we are ok with this.

Should be doable, I think.
You should use the tab key to open the mame-ui to edit the controls.

fdr4prez

@Folly

perfect, thanks.

When i get done with my $dayjob$ for the day, then I will do some testing this evening.

fdr4prez

@Folly

good news.

It all appears to be working.

I chose #16 in the list: "mame-channelf-cart"

Everything we've thrown at it has worked.

And I have wired the original controllers to the GPIO header and used GPIOnext to control them, and that is all working great, too.

I just need to remap the game reset from F3 to the backquote key and we'll be good to go.

Thanks for the hard work on this package. Maybe one day I'll make use of more if it...

Folly

@fdr4prez

Perfect.

Have you also found the retroscraper function ?
You can create a gamelist with media for the channelf games.

Btw :
Interesting that gpionext.
Perhaps I can use that too.
Do you know if "active high" works with gpionext ?

Folly

@fdr4prez

I added descriptions of the runcommands in my first post after the DEMO.
Can you have a look at that ?
Want to know if it's understandable for a beginner.

Folly

This post is deleted!

fdr4prez

@Folly said in MESS Version?:

Have you also found the retroscraper function ?
You can create a gamelist with media for the channelf games.

Thanks. Even on my personal build, just showing the box art, or the cart, is sufficient. So I've never scraped before since the number of systems I play are small enough to manage this. I keep a copy of the roms folder, images folder, and the gameslist.xml files, so if I ever need to rebuild from a fresh retropie install, then it is as simple as copy/paste to the card and I am done.

Btw :
Interesting that gpionext.
Perhaps I can use that too.
Do you know if "active high" works with gpionext ?

There is an optional command to "pulldown", so it sounds like they are pulling up by default.

I didn't need to change anything.

fdr4prez

@Folly said in MESS Version?:

I added descriptions of the runcommands in my first post after the DEMO.
Can you have a look at that ?
Want to know if it's understandable for a beginner.

Thanks.

As a beginner, it would be interesting to know what some of the details of the differences are.

Meaning, I see this in the emulators.cfg file (ignoring the lr-fbneo-chf):

lr-mess-channelf-basename-autoframeskip = "removed"
lr-mess-channelf-basename-frameskip_10 = "removed"
lr-mess-channelf-basename = "removed'"
lr-mess-channelf-cart-autoframeskip = "removed"
lr-mess-channelf-cart = "removed"
lr-mess-channelf-game-specific-cart-autoframeskip = "removed"
lr-mess-channelf-game-specific-cart = "removed"
lr-mess-cmd = "removed"
lr-run_mess-channelf-cart-autoframeskip = "removed"
lr-run_mess-channelf-game-specific-cart-autoframeskip = "removed"
mame-channelf-basename-autoframeskip = "removed"
mame-channelf-basename-frameskip_10 = "removed"
mame-channelf-basename = "removed"
mame-channelf-cart-autoframeskip = "removed"
mame-channelf-cart = "removed"
mame-channelf-game-specific-cart-autoframeskip = "removed"
mame-channelf-game-specific-cart = "removed"
default = "mame-channelf-cart"

You've explained the "CMD" one, and the "game-specific-cart" sounds self-explanitory, but what the difference between using "basename" and "cart"? What is difference between the "autoframeskip" and the "frameskip_10"?

I know that they are for more advanced things and more likely needed for other systems, so not necessarily needed for Channel F.

Just knowing, for a noob, that you simply should select between these:
lr-mess-channelf-basename
lr-mess-channelf-cart
mame-channelf-basename
mame-channelf-cart

If you want to use one as the default, is there a difference between using "basename" and "cart"?

I've tested using mame-channelf-cart as the default and everything worked, so I will test using the mame-channelf-basename to see if everything still works.

For a default setting, is one more advantageous than the other?

Folly

@fdr4prez

Thanks for the information.

fdr4prez

@Folly

By chance, is there anyway I can get this installed on my Pi0W?

it won't let me install it.. says mame isn't allowed.

Folly

@fdr4prez

From what I can see in the mame module-script the "arm6" cpu isn't supported.
It is probably removed because the pi1/pi0 isn't powerful enough.
So if RetroPie doesn't support mame for pi1/pi0 then there will be no binary to install.

Strange thing is that lr-mess seems to be supported though.
So you can see if you can install the lr-mess binary and hopefully it will run with the correct speed.
However my add-mamedev-systems.sh module-script will not work without "mame standalone" as it uses this to extract data from it,
to generate a module-script,
for the selected system,
somebody wants to install.

You can however try to use the generated module-script from your pi4 and copy that one to your pi0.
Then you can install that one from the exp packages.
Of-course the "mame standalone" runcommand will not work.

Try to search for this file on your pi4 :
/home/pi/RetroPie-Setup/scriptmodules/libretrocores/install-channelf-from-mamedev-system-channelf-cart.sh
Copy it to your pi0 and install it.

There is a possibility to install mame with apt in the CLI.
However, if possible, it will be an old version and the config structure isn't the same as with RetroPie.
So I would not recommend it directly.

I suggest you try lr-mess first.

Another solution could be to install lr-freechaf or lr-fbneo :

lr-freechaf will probably be best choice for the pi0.

fdr4prez

@Folly said in MESS Version?:

lr-freechaf will probably be best choice for the pi0.

For sure this does not work with the newer homebrew. that was tested and rejected.

EDIT: I should note that lr-freechaf seems to be only for 1-player. I was not able to get a second player to be functional. Also, the mapping to the real controller doesn't seem possible - unless I just don't know how to do it.

I will tinker with your other suggestions.

I can understand that the Pi0 is underpowered for most mame/arcade games, but the Channel F can't be that resource demanding.

barbudreadmon

@fdr4prez said in MESS Version?:

I use the standalone Stella, jzintv, coolcv, etc. So is there any reason to use "lr-mess" instead of "mame" for Channel F?

Libretro has a number of interesting features you might find missing while using standalone emulators : shaders, rewind, runahead, netplay, retroachievements, centralized controller setup, ...
However that's only true if the libretro api was properly implemented within the emulator : MAME isn't in that category.

fdr4prez

@barbudreadmon said in MESS Version?:

@fdr4prez said in MESS Version?:

I use the standalone Stella, jzintv, coolcv, etc. So is there any reason to use "lr-mess" instead of "mame" for Channel F?

Libretro has a number of interesting features you might find missing while using standalone emulators : shaders, rewind, runahead, netplay, retroachievements, centralized controller setup, ...
However that's only true if the libretro api was properly implemented within the emulator : MAME isn't in that category.

yes, I know; thanks.

I am not interested in any of those.

Plus, I use the OEM controllers, so i don't use a centralized controller at all.

Unless lr-stella has been updated recently, then it doesn't work for newer homebrew and other controller types don't really work (paddles, driving controller, etc)

Folly

@fdr4prez

I tested a few things on my pi zero with Bullseye.
I tested the standard mame from the raspberry pi os repository.
This version is 0.228 and works and has the most speed when using the full gl video driver.
But you still need to skip 10 frames to get the emulation speed around "100%", though the sound is not that good and the resolution is very low.
Also there isn't a recent mame binary for the pi zero.
I also tested retroarch+lr-mess but couldn't get it to run in a decent speed although lr-mess says that the speed is about "81%".

All in all the conclusion is basically the pi-zero is too slow for this.
Save yourself the time and effort and use a better pi.

Dit you get it running and what is your conclusion ?

fdr4prez

@Folly said in MESS Version?:

Dit you get it running and what is your conclusion ?

I couldn't get anything to run at all. I guess I am just not smart enough to figure out the basics

I tested a few things on my pi zero with Bullseye.
I tested the standard mame from the raspberry pi os repository.
This version is 0.228 and works and has the most speed when using the full gl video driver.
But you still need to skip 10 frames to get the emulation speed around "100%", though the sound is not that good and the resolution is very low.
Also there isn't a recent mame binary for the pi zero.
I also tested retroarch+lr-mess but couldn't get it to run in a decent speed although lr-mess says that the speed is about "81%".

That's more than I could do

All in all the conclusion is basically the pi-zero is too slow for this.

Thanks. I was hoping that the Channel F system will be OK for the Pi0. How resource demanding can this system be?

Channel F works great with AdvanceMAME 3 (advmess) on the Pi0 and Pi3B for the older games, but that is version 0.106 so the newer homebrew don't run.

I saw that lr-mame2016 and lr-mess2016 are available for the Pi0, and that is at 0.174 level, so I installed them on both the Pi0 and PI3B

We suspect that this is new enough for the newer homebrew that need larger memory mapping, that the newer mame/mess supports, but I couldn't get either to run any old/simple Channel F game.

Since lr-mess2016 is an available package to be installed on the Pi0, then i'd hope it would at least run the older games.

again, it just could be that I don't have the BIOS in the right place and not having the correct opt/retropie/configs/channelf/emulators.cfg setting, etc. Anything I put in there would just be a guess on my part.

Save yourself the time and effort and use a better pi.

Thanks. You helped me get it running on the Pi3B, so we are good there and grateful for that. I was hoping to use one of my many Pi0W and Channel F cart as a case. The Pi0W will fit right nicely in there.