Try Retropie on a PC!
-
Before springing for a Raspberry Pi 3, I thought I'd check out Retropie by installing it on an old PC over Ubuntu by following this guide:
https://github.com/retropie/retropie-setup/wiki/RetroPie-Ubuntu-16.04-LTS-x86-FlavorI was bowled over - this is the retro gaming system I have been dreaming about for years!
I immediately put my current retro gaming console - the Ouya - up for sale on eBay, and when it sold, I used the money to order a Pi 3.
That's when things started looking slightly less rosy.
While I was waiting for my Pi to arrive, I watched some YouTube videos of N64 games being played on the Pi 3. They didn't look so good. There was a lot of slowdown and choppiness.
Everything I had read on the forums had been encouraging, but in hindsight, I think that this may have been optimism rather than realism.
There's lots of talk about using different emulators and tweaking settings etc, which is not what I want - I just want to play the games. Even after tweaking, the games (even Mario 64) were still not running well. 'Playable' appears to be a relative term, and my definition of playable appears to differ from that of the people who filled out the compatibility spreadsheet.
Also, this console must be usable by my five year old daughter, and I can't expect her to mess around with graphics plugins.My attention then turned back to the PC that I have been using as my test bed.
It's actually quite a small PC - a small form factor HP desktop model DC5800.
It's not much bigger than most current-gen consoles.
It is only a Core 2 Duo @ 3Ghz, but it's still vastly more powerful than the Pi 3.
I upgraded the graphics card for $18, and wow! It plays N64 games really well!There's no stuttering or choppiness, even in Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, and I am able to push the graphics settings pretty high with no problems.
The graphics are even better than a real N64 because they are upscaled, which looks great on my big TV.As to messing around with different emulators and tweaking settings, well it looks like I can pretty much forget about all that.
I've only been testing it for a few days, but so far it's played everything I have thrown at it, certainly better than my Ouya did.What I'm saying is this: you don't need a Raspberry Pi to use Retropie, and without the constraints of the Pi's hardware Retropie really shines.
I'm not against the Pi, in fact I already own several older models (I was an early adopter), but my belief is that the Pi isn't quite up to the task yet, at least as far as N64 goes.
As much as I love the Pi, I also believe in using the best tool for the job.
In this case, that means setting aside my personal bias towards the Pi and using a PC.I'm a bit disappointed that I didn't get to put a Pi inside a PSX as I had planned, but that's a project for the future when the Pi 4 or 5 comes out.
For now, I'm very happy with my Retropie box, and I urge any Retropie fans who are disappointed with N64 performance to try out an old PC instead, at least until the next iteration of the Pi comes out.
My only gripe with my current setup is that the C64 emulator isn't working, but I haven't attacked that problem in earnest yet.
-
@jamesbeat
Hello, nice to install Retropie on a PC. You are right, N64 Games are a bit choppy, depending on the game. But systems based on Raspberry Pi3 have important advantages compared to a PC system.The RPi3 is very quiet (no fans), you can place this little box nearlly anywhere, you can even fix it to the back of your TV set.
And, for me the most important, the power consumtion. Your PC surely has an power supply in the range between 200-300 watts, the Raspberry Pi3 needs about 2-4,7 watts.
My RetroPie system runs 24/7, because it costs me just a few bucks (5-8 € ) a year to keep him running.Greetings
HPK-de
-
Yes, it's true that the Pi is tiny and has very low power consumption.
As I said, I was disappointed, because I was planning on mounting the Pi inside a Playstation which I obviously can't do with a PC.Having said that, if it doesn't do what I need it to do, then all of the Pi's advantages are meaningless.
My wife's favorite game is Goldeneye, and we like to play Perfect Dark together in Co-op mode so good N64 performance is very important.
She was stunned when she saw those games on the PC for the first time - it almost looks like a modern console game when it's upscaled.There are other advantages to a PC too; no messing around with SD cards, (plenty of room for PSX games on the HDD) no power supply issues, no usb hub needed etc.
Another advantage that I didn't even realize until I actually used it is the weight - it's nice that the Pi is so small, but it also weighs practically nothing, which can be a distinct disadvantage when using wired controllers.I'm definitely looking forward to the day when the Pi 4 or 5 etc is powerful enough to do a good job with the N64, but for now I'm very happy with my Retropie PC.
Now if I can just get the seller to respond so that I can send back the Pi 3 I'll be happy...
-
@jamesbeat
From your point of view you are doing the right thing.
If the N64 is the most important emulator for you, the PC is the best bet.
For me it is Dosbox, ScummVM, Master System and PSX, all of them are running great
on a RPi3.
But when i tested the N64 i was stunned, how much power this emulation needs.... :-(Have fun with the N64 emulation ;).
HPK-de
-
The RetroPie N64 Compatibility Sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wjzbu90l6eCEW1w6ar9NtfyDBQrSPILQL5MbRSpYSzwI haven't tried Perfect Dark but on my Raspberry Pi 3 not overclocked, Goldeneye runs in slow motion.
-
N64 is not the most important one to me, but I do consider it to be necessary.
I never actually had one as a kid, but my wife did, so it's important to her.
The systems I had were the BBC Model B, ZX Spectrum, Amstrad CPC464, C64, Atari ST, SNES and PlayStation, all of which would probably be fine on the Pi 3. -
@backstander said in Try Retropie on a PC!:
The RetroPie N64 Compatibility Sheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wjzbu90l6eCEW1w6ar9NtfyDBQrSPILQL5MbRSpYSzwI haven't tried Perfect Dark but on my Raspberry Pi 3 not overclocked, Goldeneye runs in slow motion.
It was that list that led me to make what turned out to be the wrong decision to buy a Pi 3.
My definition of 'playable' does not include the game turning into a slideshow or sounding like a machine gun :D -
Goldeneye is playable on rpi3 with recent n64 changes (with mupen64plus-GLideN64)
-
@jamesbeat
so you've found out the $30 pi3 is the slowest computer in the past 20+ years? welcome! :) don't come to these devices expecting power.that said, i wouldn't be so eager to write the pi off. n64 emulation is progressing rapidly at the moment. it isn't so much of a power issue that you might believe. i expect big things in the coming months, and that's purely coming from progress in the emulators/plugins.
-
@BuZz said in Try Retropie on a PC!:
Goldeneye is playable on rpi3 with recent n64 changes (with mupen64plus-GLideN64)
When you say 'playable', do you mean that there is no stuttering?
Are you able to use higher graphics settings?
I still have this Pi 3, and if I could get N64 performance like I'm experiencing on my PC, obviously I would prefer to go with my original plan and use the Pi.
Thing is, I can't return the Pi if I break the seal, so I can't just try it myself. -
@dankcushions said in Try Retropie on a PC!:
@jamesbeat
so you've found out the $30 pi3 is the slowest computer in the past 20+ years? welcome! :) don't come to these devices expecting power.that said, i wouldn't be so eager to write the pi off. n64 emulation is progressing rapidly at the moment. it isn't so much of a power issue that you might believe. i expect big things in the coming months, and that's purely coming from progress in the emulators/plugins.
I know the Pi is not a fast machine by PC standards, as I mentioned above, I already own several of the older models.
I simply had no reason to doubt everyone who said that it was capable of running N64 games at an acceptable frame rate.
Unfortunately, those people appear to have been somewhat optimistic in their assessment.
Only one person was actually realistic about it, and it was his advice that prompted me to look deeper into the issue and watch a load of videos, which is how I discovered that 'playable' is definitely a subjective term. -
I simply had no reason to doubt everyone who said that it was capable of running N64 games at an acceptable frame rate.
Unfortunately, those people appear to have been somewhat optimistic in their assessmentwell, they were right. for example it's possible to get the pi running Mario 64, f-zero 64, Mario kart and a bunch of other games with HLE hacks going back decades. Mario 64 runs at full speed at 1080p on the gles2n64 plugin, and I've played 4 player with the other 2 using the same plugin at 1080p (kart has horrible sound on some levels).
goldeneye and perfect dark are different stories. I've seen people get them working ok but there's areas of chop (especially the opening level of goldeneye). but as I say, this is changing by the day. no-one can say the hardware isn't up to the task until work stops on the software.
-
an example: pi2 running Mario 64 and kart at HD. By who's standard is this not playable?
-
@dankcushions said in Try Retropie on a PC!:
an example: pi2 running Mario 64 and kart at HD. By who's standard is this not playable?
That does look ok, but those games aren't really a good yardstick - I have a five year old cellphone that can play those games.
The problem is games like Perfect Dark and Goldeneye.
If you can show me those running well with no stuttering or slowdown and at a high resolution, then I will break the seal on my Pi.
As it stands, moving from my PC setup to the Pi would be a step down. -
Why does it have to be at a high resolution ? Surely if it runs fast enough at the original n64 resolution that should suffice. But of course, if you want to run things in 4x the original resolution, a rpi3 may well not be enough.
-
@BuZz
Because the original resolution just doesn't seem to be enough for a modern TV.
My TV is not particularly big by today's standards (42") but 3D games just don't look right at the original resolution.
Also, I can use high graphics accuracy settings too, which is better at any resolution.I agree that this is personal preference though, and not really authentic.
Having said all that, I haven't seen Perfect Dark or Goldeneye running well on the Pi 3 even at native resolution.
-
A pi3 will never be fast enough for all N64 games. Games which need LLE plugins like Rogue Squadron or Stunt Racer FX will never be playable on a pi3. If you need good performance all over the board, high resolutions, texture packs and filters use a pc. If you need accurate emulation you need a high end machine and an emulator like paraLLEI.
-
@jamesbeat said in Try Retropie on a PC!:
That does look ok, but those games aren't really a good yardstick - I have a five year old cellphone that can play those games
The problem is games like Perfect Dark and Goldeneye.
but you've been talking in general terms about n64 emulation. if what you actually mean is "i don't think the raspberry pi is good enough to run two games" (and hard to emulate ones at that), then that's a separate conversation.
If you can show me those running well with no stuttering or slowdown and at a high resolution, then I will break the seal on my Pi.
As it stands, moving from my PC setup to the Pi would be a step down.of course! it will always be a step down! the pi3 is equivalent to, what, a pentium 2 or 3? the gpu is approximately the worst gpu you can buy. what the pi is is a very cheap, small device, and n64 on the pi is yet to mature.
-
@gizmo98
Very true, in fact I was reading an article just last night which explained why you need at least a 3Ghz processor to perform cycle-accurate emulation of the SNES.I'm still half tempted to break the seal on my Pi 3 just because I wanted so badly to house it in a PlayStation, but my head is telling me to bide my time and use the PC until the Pi 4 comes out.
The PC is just so beautifully smooth, it's difficult to justify going to the Pi 3 for something as frivolous as the case I want to use. -
@dankcushions said in Try Retropie on a PC!:
@jamesbeat said in Try Retropie on a PC!:
That does look ok, but those games aren't really a good yardstick - I have a five year old cellphone that can play those games
The problem is games like Perfect Dark and Goldeneye.
but you've been talking in general terms about n64 emulation. if what you actually mean is "i don't think the raspberry pi is good enough to run two games" (and hard to emulate ones at that), then that's a separate conversation.
If you can show me those running well with no stuttering or slowdown and at a high resolution, then I will break the seal on my Pi.
As it stands, moving from my PC setup to the Pi would be a step down.of course! it will always be a step down! the pi3 is equivalent to, what, a pentium 2 or 3? the gpu is approximately the worst gpu you can buy. what the pi is is a very cheap, small device, and n64 on the pi is yet to mature.
I don't think it's fair to say that the Pi will always be a step down.
If your goal is to emulate up to the N64, then once there is a powerful enough Pi to do the job, there would be no point using a more powerful machine.Of course, if your goal is always going to be to add more and more power hungry emulators, there can be no end to how much power you will need, and the Pi will always be a step behind a PC.
Contributions to the project are always appreciated, so if you would like to support us with a donation you can do so here.
Hosting provided by Mythic-Beasts. See the Hosting Information page for more information.