Trying to sell a Custom Retropie powered case
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Hi,
I have had a custom case on Etsy for a few months now. I have a verified list of playable games and custom features that make it easy to get started playing. I am only trying to profit on the physical case hardware and work I put into it. But I have not had any sales yet. Does anyone have experience marketing/selling similar products? Any advice/critique on my listing?
https://www.etsy.com/listing/285537105/31-retro-game-console-emulator-system
Thanks,
Retropoint -
The pictures are not very nice, you could improve them.
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Your listing is fine, but to be honest I don't really see much market for 3D printed cases. I think 3D printing is great for enthusiasts, but for commercial purposes the products have a much lower appeal.
For example, I could get a real NES for around the same price and just gut it for a much more authentic experience. I would love a RetroPie console, but I would never settle for a 3D printed case... unless I made it myself (there's always pride in your own work - and it's obvious you did put work into this!).
The other element to this is that the market is small, and you're segmenting it further if you only have the listing on etsy. Ebay reaches a much broader audience. Emulation just isn't a big market, and the market that is there is full of self-starters who don't necessarily look for products like this.
Finally, selling this and including a RetroPie image is a violation of terms of use. You cannot use RetroPie in any commercial product, from what I have read. I recommend you research this instead of just taking my word for it.
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Thanks for the quick reply's. I have noticed ebay listings sell quicker than etsy. I saw someone else selling a generic case with all the RetroPie software for more money and that's where I got the idea. I didn't think I was violating any terms since I am marketing the hardware as the selling point, but I will look further into it. Thanks again!
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It is a breach of licences to include a pre-installed RetroPie image with a commercial product - even if you are "Giving away" RetroPie as an extra. This is because many Emulators included on the image have a non commercial clause in their licences. (eg all snes emulators, all fba emulators, genesis plus gx, the older versions of mame)
https://retropie.org.uk/documentation/legal-contact/
The image we provide is Raspbian Lite with RetroPie pre-installed. Some software included in the RetroPie image have non-commercial licences. Because of this selling a pre-installed RetroPie image is not legal – this includes “giving away” a pre-installed RetroPie with your commercial product. Including copyrighted games with RetroPie is also not allowed.
If you are selling hardware that supports RetroPie you should provide a link to our site for your customers rather than including a RetroPie image with your product.
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How are you able to offer that for $40? That's only $2 more than I paid for my Pi 3.
I'm not familiar with etsy, so I guess I could be missing something. -
@jamesbeat The $40 price is just for the case without the board. You would still need a Pi Board, Power adapter, controllers, bluetooth adapter, and microsd card. I guess I'll just try selling everything without the image. Couldn't I provide my custom image for free to download to complement my product? I wouldn't see why not.
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@Retropoint77 explain to me why you think it's a fair thing for you to repackage our work to supplement your profits
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@herb_fargus I am not trying to profit off of your work and I will not be providing an image with my case. If the image is free to download, why can't I make a configured image free to download? I am new to this stuff and not trying to steal anyones work. I have been learning RetroPie and the Pi hardware for almost 2 years and thought I could provide a useful piece of hardware to compliment RetroPie.
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@Retropoint77 said in Trying to sell a Custom Retropie powered case:
@jamesbeat The $40 price is just for the case without the board. You would still need a Pi Board, Power adapter, controllers, bluetooth adapter, and microsd card. I guess I'll just try selling everything without the image. Couldn't I provide my custom image for free to download to complement my product? I wouldn't see why not.
It doesn't say that in your listing:
This is a complete Plug-and-play System. You just need to install RetroPie and upload your own games. Instructions on adding games are easy(see the dropbox link above). Verified working games I've played on this system include:
How can it be a complete plug and play system if it's only a case?
I'd reword that asap if I were you, or else you may get an extremely angry customer demanding a refund.Edit: it even lists this:
- Raspberry Pi 3 Model B 1GB Ram
(overclocked with cooling fan and 3 chip heat sinks)
Anyone reading that would reasonably believe that it is a complete system including The Pi 3 all set up ready to add roms and play.
- Raspberry Pi 3 Model B 1GB Ram
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@jamesbeat I updated my listing. Thanks.
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@BuZz so it is possible to remove these packages with a "non commercial clause in their licenses" and offer a custom RetroPie?
Thanks,
Javier -
@javiermartinez : I would be more in favor of adding a non-commercial license to the retropie core scripts, and be done with all this it once and for all...
Its a community - build project, there shouldn't be individuals cashing in on all that value.
If tetris has thought me anything, it's that errors pile up and that accomplishments dissappear.
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@Zigurana said in Trying to sell a Custom Retropie powered case:
@javiermartinez : I would be more in favor of adding a non-commercial license to the retropie core scripts, and be done with all this it once and for all...
Its a community - build project, there shouldn't be individuals cashing in on all that value.
I understand what you mean, but I can't understand what's the difference between offering to your clients a memory card with an image of Retropie/others or say to them to download the image and install it on the commercial hardware.
There are many commercial products using open source and the benefits are reciprocal. (routers, media players, etc)It's only my opinion. :)
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I'm glad you mentioned routers - it's a good example - There have been many cases where router manufacturers have used GPL code, and broken the licence by not making their source available
https://wiki.fsfe.org/Migrated/GPL Enforcement Cases
media software is another good example. Kodi is being damaged by people selling it with addons designed to stream copyrighted content for free. Because of this Kodi was pulled from the Amazon Store for example - https://kodi.tv/kodi-available-on-google-play-not-on-amazon/
There is no reciprocal benefit here.
You can argue it all you want - but the emulator authors did not want their work sold, or even included with something that is sold. Without their work we wouldn't have the emulators we have now. Is it such a big deal to respect and adhere to their licensing terms ?
I would think the reason is a commercial product can be sold using their software as added value - and it's easy to say "you are only paying for the hardware" - but it's not that clear cut if the software adds value to the package.
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In regards to emulators which have non profit clauses - many of them - including all snes emulators, genesis plus gx, all the older versions of mame, all the versions of fba.
And probably more.
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@Zigurana said in Trying to sell a Custom Retropie powered case:
@javiermartinez : I would be more in favor of adding a non-commercial license to the retropie core scripts, and be done with all this it once and for all...
Its a community - build project, there shouldn't be individuals cashing in on all that value.
We used to have one - we switched to GPL as we realised we could not enforce it :(
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It's not like the seller is hooped because he/she can't offer a custom retropie image. If that's what the business needs to stand out, then that seller should develop their own update script to make sure all the controls are correct and it's more plug and play.
To me, this isn't about fairness. I could go online and pick and choose the ones I don't personally see any issue with them offering a RetroPie image. There are examples where it's clearly not doing any harm, in my opinion. But it's not about our opinions. If you have a business, or if you are selling something, it's your responsibility to ensure you aren't opening yourself up to litigation.
I won't assume to know Buzz's personal opinion on the morality of it all, but I would assume that the RetroPie team has to take this stance in order to keep good faith with the license holders. As users, we should be mindful of that and not encourage this practice as well. I would think that good working relationships with the many players in the emulation world is vital to RetroPie's future.
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@Zigurana @BuZz @Concat thanks for your opinions and comments. Sometimes is very difficult to know how to act in the right way when starting a new business. I am sure that if a good product is offered, the buyer will make every effort to install the distribution they like.
It is clear that to avoid licensing problems and to be respectful with the community of developers I should focus my business to the hardware part and leave the customer decide which distribution to use, even if it means fewer sales.
Thanks,
Javier -
Here's another perspective:
There's an old joke that half of all people are below average intellingence, and although it's a joke about statistics, its also true.Retropie on the Pi is ridiculously easy to set up and use, and there are loads of step by step tutorials and videos explaining exactly how to do it.
We have a dedicated forum here for people without experience to ask experts for help with things not covered in the tutorials.Most people could set themselves up a retropie console if they tried.
Selling a console with Retropie already installed is catering to those few people who know what Retropie is, but are too dumb or lazy to set it up for themselves.
My question to you is, do you want these people as your customers?
If they are stupid or lazy, do you want to be the poor sap who has set himself up to be technical support for these people?You know who they're going to complain to when they change the wrong setting or can't figure out how to get roms on the thing.
Just sell the hardware to people who know what they're doing.
You may be decreasing your pool of potential customers, but you will be avoiding those customers who would give you a headache or demand a refund.
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