Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA

caver01

@Riverstorm said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

Yeah as I thought about it overnight and it made sense. Is it curvature that cause issues with vertical games or do most run ok?

My setup might be different than most since I play most vertical games in cocktail mode with players standing on the sides of my cabinet. That allows me to run them fullscreen (which looks like it is rotated sideways from the horizontal side). I remap players 1 and 2 controls to the side positions normally setup as players 3 and 4. So, games like PacMan, Donkey Kong, and similar era vertical games all play from the sides and the player sees the game fill the display. If two credits are triggered and you start a 2-player game, it rotates 180 for player 2 (cocktail mode DIP switch set in MAME menu).

That said, there are a few vertical titles that I cannot run this way. Games like 1941 have two players side-by-side. This won't work in cocktail mode on my cabinet because players stand on opposite sides of the screen. The actual arcade has two sets of controls next to each other, so I need to rotate that game back to the horizontal view. Centipede is another example. My trackball is on the horizontal, so that one needs to to be rotated too. There aren't many, but they need some special treatment. Right now, I have been changing the shader to eliminate curvature because I get too much moire patterns (with the pillar-box black borders the resolution just isn't high enough). I suppose I have scanline issues on these too because I am not using integer scaling. I am hoping a few tweaks to the shader mentioned above will make this better.

Speaking of which, that vertical version--I don't know if I have it. My setup was built from 3.6 image. Does anyone know if updating the retropie script also downloads updated shaders? Maybe another retropie menu choice does that?

As for atari, I have been playing Yar's Revenge and I think it looks great, curvature and all. The nice thing about these options is that they are so flexible to suit your own taste.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

Speaking of which, that vertical version--I don't know if I have it. My setup was built from 3.6 image. Does anyone know if updating the retropie script also downloads updated shaders? Maybe another retropie menu choice does that?

As for atari, I have been playing Yar's Revenge and I think it looks great, curvature and all. The nice thing about these options is that they are so flexible to suit your own taste.

I think the vertical version is an "unofficial" one that Dank created. It's at the link he posted above but you need a Libretro account to download it.

If you get a chance, no hurry at all, could you take a pic of Yar's Revenge just to see what it looks like. I am using the default emulator for 2600 but maybe it's how it's rendering. I haven't looked into tweaking the shader at all at this point.

caver01

@Riverstorm I will try to get a couple screen snaps. I am using lr-stella. What is your display's resolution?

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

@Riverstorm I will try to get a couple screen snaps. I am using lr-stella. What is your display's resolution?

It's a 1920 x 1200 monitor and sometimes a small TV I do believe it's 21 or 23" (not sure resolution but would guess 720p). I usually don't change any options like resolution or screen buffer, etc. I think my Atari is defaulted to lr-fceum (or something like that) and not Stella. I will flip over and give that a shot too.

By the way I do read everything you do and I have a lot of questions but I figure I'll take notes and small steps asking as I add tweaks to my RetroPie setup because you pretty much covered everything I would want to do but I still need to get up to lr-2003 as you and Dank sold me on upgrading at some point. :)

caver01

@Riverstorm I was totally immersed in AdvanceMAME for a long time, having tried RetroPie a long time back and a few other distributions. My previous SD Card was running something else and was working great, but it didn't survive the upgrade to Jessie (Pi3). That's when I decided to put my efforts back into setting up RetroPie, as the community here is great.

So, my adventure here started with AdvanceMAME since I had a very good, working config for that (single config covers all ROM adjustments). However, when I spotted the slick shaders that had little or no effect on performance I was hooked. Assembling different ROM sets was a challenge at first, but as it turns out, almost all of my .106 ROMs work just fine. I used to have an entire set loaded, but it was such a burden to scroll past titles I would never play that I decided to take my current approach--load only those arcade ROMs I want to play. I have also moved them all into ARCADE which I really appreciate! It's so much easier for guests to select titles from that list than to teach them about MAME, FBA, and so on, not to mention that I still need AdvanceMAME for some games.

Landing on 2003 seems to be the best intersection of features: lr shaders, flexible viewport/aspect adjustments, MAME menu access to DIP switches, key mapping, and disabled "OK" at start, NVRAM saves, High Scores. It's nearly perfect for me (exceptions are analog controls, vector, and "not" key mapping) . That said, I also appreciate the performance I get out of lr-fba-next, so I am using that for Street Fighter variants and the Metal Slug series (with blood enabled!).

It has required a lot of custom tweaks, often per ROM, but I only run about 156 arcade ROMs, and many have similar setups. I like reading the games other folks are playing because it reminds me of a ROM I might be forgetting. I also sometimes scroll through my large folder of snaps to see if something looks interesting. There are so many games worth trying that I have never seen before!

Riverstorm

@caver01 Nice Caver, I think high scores are nice and the group of guys I hang with get very competitive for bragging rights. I don't remember what version of MAME they pulled high scores. It sounds like 2003 is a nice balance but I sure wish they had spinner support. It seems like that should almost be a staple input as some real classics use it and it's great for driving games too. Ultimarc has that wheel that seats nicely over the top.

I don't know if you know or not but does Xenophobe work in 2003? I know it does it AdvMAME but not mame4all. It's a classic 3 player game we grew up on in the arcades. Also 2 others that don't run in mame4all but do AdvMAME is Star Castle and Solar Quest.

I have never really heard of or done anything with Arcade, is it a MAME emulator? At some point I was hoping you'll explain how you made tank sticks out of the joystick. I suppose that's pretty advanced mapping vs. the standard pick a key for this action. :)

Riverstorm

@caver01 The other thing is I think the scanlines are "ok" on the Atari 2600. Space Invaders was another that was like a benchmark test game. I think I got so used to the crisp and smooth look on HD Tele's that I forgot what the real deal looked like back in the day. It's like Standard Definition (SD) 80's videos. I watch them and think to myself was the picture quality really that awful back then. It's like night and day between SD and HD.

The other thing is you don't use video_scale_integer = true then as an option so as to not waste screen real estate?

caver01

@Riverstorm Solar Quest and Star Castle are both vector games, so I use AdvanceMAME (can specify full resolution for nice, crisp vector lines). Xenophobe I have running AdvanceMAME too. I was running into issues with it in lr emulators.

As for ARCADE, think of it as a conglomerate space to hold and launch "Arcade" games, regardless of what emulator you use. Basically, if you can keep it straight (I use a spreadsheet) you put all of your arcade ROMs into the arcade folder, then use the runcommand at launch to specify the default emulator (2003 for me) and when applicable, use runcommand to specify an alternate. The beauty here is that you can choose any of the arcade ROM emulators. All versions of MAME and FBA are available in the runcommand menu! So, in Emulation Station, you have ONE "emulator" choice generically called Arcade, and from that list of ROMs you are actually launching lr-mame2003, advmame, lr-fba-next and so on. For me, this is key with guest players who don't need to know or care that you need to use a different MAME to play Centipede because your default doesn't have trackball support. One oddball is that Daphne, which technically plays Arcade games, isn't in the list. Perhaps it should be.

caver01

@Riverstorm said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

The other thing is you don't use video_scale_integer = true then as an option so as to not waste screen real estate?

I don't use it because I value the whole screen more than the artifacts I might get from scanline inconsistency, which don't really bother me since curvature is already pushing the lines around. I would think at your resolution it would not matter either. The exception is vertical games rotated on a horizontal display. These don't fill the screen, and in fact, end up with a low enough resolution that the scanline issues become distracting. Integer scaling might help, but I suspect DaveJ's shader tweak will make me happy at fractional scaling. I haven't tried it yet. I need to download it. I see he posted something today about it. Curvature is also an issue for these downsized vertical games. I get more pronounced moire patterns.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

@Riverstorm Solar Quest and Star Castle are both vector games, so I use AdvanceMAME (can specify full resolution for nice, crisp vector lines). Xenophobe I have running AdvanceMAME too. I was running into issues with it in lr emulators.

That's funny I have just a few games in AdvMAME and those where the main ones that crash in mame4all that are on the must have list of classics. :)

As for ARCADE, think of it as a conglomerate space to hold and launch "Arcade" games, regardless of what emulator you use.

That sounds pretty cool. I need to take a closer look at that. The wife has no interest in how it works. She just wants to sit down and play a few arcade games she remembers and also Super Mario on NES and some SNES games. That sounds perfect!

One oddball is that Daphne, which technically plays Arcade games, isn't in the list. Perhaps it should be.

Yes I hope Daphne continues development and support. I also tried adding scanlines to Daphne (created a retroarch.cfg) but it was a no go.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in [Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA](/topic/834/scanlines-in-libretro

I suspect DaveJ's shader tweak will make me happy at fractional scaling. I haven't tried it yet.

Sorry I got to ask, I know integer scaling now but what is fractional scaling? ;)

caver01

@Riverstorm said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

Yes I hope Daphne continues development and support. I also tried adding scanlines to Daphne (created a retroarch.cfg) but it was a no go.

That's because Daphne isn't a Libretro core. It's a standalone emu like AdvaceMAME. I don't really mind that it doesn't have scanlines. It's playing a video after all, so obscuring pixels edges with simulated CRT RGB triads isn't a big deal for me. Arcade unites arcade emulators under one list whether stand-alone or lr cores, but it doesn't combine settings.

caver01

@Riverstorm said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

Sorry I got to ask, I know integer scaling now but what is fractional scaling? ;)

It's just what I called not using integer scaling. When you don't bother to specify integer scaling, you are letting it scale to fill your display dimensions, and that is very likely some fractional magnification. It might be 1.5x, 3.2x--whatever.

My point was that I haven't yet tried DaveJ's update to the shader to improve vertical games on horizontal displays. If it looks OK, it may allow me to avoid using integer scaling (which I don't, but might need to if I want to improve the look of scanlines--but maybe the new shader works either way).

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

My point was that I haven't yet tried DaveJ's update to the shader to improve vertical games on horizontal displays. If it looks OK, it may allow me to avoid using integer scaling (which I don't, but might need to if I want to improve the look of scanlines--but maybe the new shader works either way).

Ah ok, that makes sense, a fitting terminology. I popped over there to say thanks for his work and asked if it will make it to the RetroPie Repo at some point. I can wait if it does unless of course it's doing something very different that I should grab it.

Dank asked if he could break out the shaders which I think I prefer vs. tweaking the files.

I don't really mind that it doesn't have scanlines. It's playing a video after all, so obscuring pixels edges with simulated CRT RGB triads isn't a big deal for me.

That's true...

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in [Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA](/topic/834/scanlines-in-libretro-

Solar Quest and Star Castle are both vector games, so I use AdvanceMAME (can specify full resolution for nice, crisp vector lines).

One more question for you if that's ok. You're a fountain of knowledge my good sir! ;) How do you get full resolution for these vector games? I am using the overlay which I think was just part of the glass or background and not a generated image which looks really nice but I was just wondering what you tweak to make sure it's full resolution.

caver01

@Riverstorm said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

One more question for you if that's ok. You're a fountain of knowledge my good sir! ;) How do you get full resolution for these vector games?

You need to look for these lines in your .rc file for the version of advancemame you are using. Edit both if you might use each, but let's say you are using 1.4. So edit advmame-1.4.rc and look for the lines that look like:

display_width 1280
display_height 1024
display_flicker 15
display_intensity 1.5
display_antialias yes
display_translucency yes
display_beam 1.2

These settings only affect vector games. I like them this way on my screen. The flicker is a nice effect and it's set light here. The beam seems to enlarge in one dimension only, so if you want thick beams, you can't really get them, but I like a little larger than 1 pixel. Intensity can go up to 3 which I like, but if you back it down a bit, the flicker is more visible as is the translucency.

If you haven't already done it, also set sound_latency 0.05. The default is ridiculously high and you can see/hear the delay, so set this to the minimum of 0.05.

Finally, make sure when you launch using the runcommand that you are using the full resolution of your display.

jretropie

Hi all,

I tried add the crt shader by using Floob's script. It shader then works on SNES, Sega, NeoGeo but not on any Mame emulator. Is there any trick to enable it on MAME?

dankcushions

@jretropie said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

Hi all,

I tried add the crt shader by using Floob's script. It shader then works on SNES, Sega, NeoGeo but not on any Mame emulator. Is there any trick to enable it on MAME?

you have to be using a libretro mame emulator. use https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/wiki/Runcommand to find out what you're using.

jretropie

@dankcushions Hi, I have tried Ir-fba-next, Ir-fba, Ir-mame2003. But none of them shows the shader.

dankcushions

@jretropie said in Scanlines in Libretro AdvMAME and FBA:

@dankcushions Hi, I have tried Ir-fba-next, Ir-fba, Ir-mame2003. But none of them shows the shader.

are they in the arcade folder? might be that the script hasn't been updated to use the new(ish) arcade or mame-libretro file paths. not sure. you could instead use the https://github.com/retropie/retropie-setup/wiki/Configuration-Editor

anyway, the shaders have been updated to the latest versions. here's some pretty screenshots:

crt-pi
alt text

crt-pi-curvature
alt text

crt-pi-vertical
alt text

crt-pi-curvature-vertical
alt text

reinstall retroarch via retropie-setup to get the new ones