Configuring <CODE_NOT> Control Mapping in lr-MAME2003?

[Riverstorm]

@caver01 said in Configuring <CODE_NOT> Control Mapping in lr-MAME2003?:

Here's what I think is happening--that button is on an old cherry microswitch. it sometimes bounces and registers a double-key press. This makes sense, as MAME is supposed to allow double-presses to register as a <CODE_NOT>, but here's the rub--I can't make it register a <CODE_NOT> which makes we wonder if maybe the time allotment is too short. It should be around 1-second. It's definitely detecting multiples with <CODE_AND> with a proper timer, as I can setup Q-bert on an 8-way by mapping to the corners.

Hey Caver, wouldn't the <NOT> need to be registered with another key first? I mean to register only a NOT command alone is basically saying you can press anything but right-ctrl but it seems more like it wouldn't register any working key and would only test the NOT condition which would make the key do nothing.

Are you using a SuzoHapp button? If you have a spare cherry switch you could switch them out for testing? I didn't think you could press it to fast but I know you can register it to slow. I never seem to have much luck with the NOT command in MAME.

[caver01]

@Riverstorm I have had great success in AdvanceMAME. It registers a not when you press the same key in rapid succession. If you press two different keys in succession, they <AND> together. And if you pause long enough for MAME to accept the key and print it on the screen, pressing enter again without moving to another control will have you entering a second key mapping and this will be <OR> with the existing.

Try mapping a TankStick configuration in AdvanceMAME. It works great. For Right/UP you can hit Enter, then use the joystick to tap out UP-RIGHT-RIGHT in rapid succession. Wait for it to accept, then enter again and do LEFT-DOWN-DOWN. This gives you the combination of ORs, ANDs and NOTs to map Right/Up on a single joystick, and you can move on to the others (see my notes above). That's what I do in AdvanceMAME, but in 2003, the double-taps fail.

I have spare microswitches--I was merely trying to understand why/how I could accidentally get a "not" to show up in a mame2003 config. The fact that it shows up occasionally for me by accident proves that 2003 can handle <CODE_NOT> mapping. I am thinking that it's just interface timing that is messed up for this.

[dankcushions]

i just tried it on my osx install of lr-mame2003, and NOT and AND worked as you'd expect - not particularly fast on the button timings, either. will test pi install in a sec...

[caver01]

@dankcushions Interesting! I am particularly curious about setting up Toobin, Sarge (if it would launch correctly) and Vindicators. I would say Battlezone for single-joysitck cabinets, but that one being vector is probably better in AdvanceMAME anyway.

[Riverstorm]

@caver01 said in Configuring <CODE_NOT> Control Mapping in lr-MAME2003?:

I have spare microswitches--I was merely trying to understand why/how I could accidentally get a "not" to show up in a mame2003 config. The fact that it shows up occasionally for me by accident proves that 2003 can handle <CODE_NOT> mapping. I am thinking that it's just interface timing that is messed up for this.

Sorry I was building off previous posts/conversations. I know you have pretty much mastered AdvMAME! ;) I was referring to "regular" MAME.

I haven't tried 2003 and I was taking it for granted it was fully working in 2003 as I believe it does in mame4all fine. The only reason I was asking about the cherry switches is they make such a clean click. When you look at the innards they seem to be magnetic when they "click" together. Hence a double click seems almost faulty but I suppose it's a good indicator that the program could be faulty too.

If you have a moment can you explain what you do with the tank stick? You're trying to say up but not right and down but not left with a regular joystick?

[dankcushions]

yeah... this works absolutely fine on my pi :) i'm using a normal UDEV controller (joystick, although i'm sure it would work on my gamepads also), and what i do is:

• TAB on keyboard to enter mame menu
• Input (This game) ... press ENTER on kb to select
• UP/DOWN ARROW on kb to select whatever input
• A button on stick (pause of about half a second), double tap B button)
• wait a few seconds
• result: "RetroPad1 A not RetroPad1 B"

if i repeat the same but instead tap them both at the same time:

• result: "RetroPad1 A RetroPad1 B" (i guess this means AND)

so.. this doesn't work for others?

[Riverstorm]

@dankcushions said in Configuring <CODE_NOT> Control Mapping in lr-MAME2003?:

so.. this doesn't work for others?

It works ok in mame4all-pi & lr-imame4all.

[dankcushions]

@Riverstorm and lr-mame2003.. at least in my test above.

[Riverstorm]

@dankcushions said in Configuring <CODE_NOT> Control Mapping in lr-MAME2003?:

@Riverstorm and lr-mame2003.. at least in my test above.

Ok, I am using an XBOX controller so we'll have to wait and see what Caver comes back with for input as it seems to be working software wise for both of us.

[caver01]

@Riverstorm @dankcushions Wow. Ok. I hope I am not wasting everyone's time with this. I have tried repeatedly to do this on my system, and tried again last night. I am using an IPAC which is effectively a keyboard interface.

I also happen to have an external USB keyboard attached. I haven't tried using that to do <CODE_NOT>, but I will try it in a couple of hours when I get home. As a possible comparison, can either of you do this with a keyboard, or is it only with joypad/handheld controllers?

[dankcushions]

@caver01 said in Configuring <CODE_NOT> Control Mapping in lr-MAME2003?:

I also happen to have an external USB keyboard attached. I haven't tried using that to do <CODE_NOT>, but I will try it in a couple of hours when I get home. As a possible comparison, can either of you do this with a keyboard, or is it only with joypad/handheld controllers?

just tried on my wireless keyboard.. works ok for me :) perhaps it's more fiddly with directions than buttons? i can see it harder to get a 'clean' press with a stick direction, than just tapping buttons. that's all i can think of, unless it's some specific ipac thing.

[caver01]

@dankcushions I don't think this is a fiddly thing related to sensitivity etc. I think it must be how I am configured in some way.

Just so we can compare apples to apples:
When I first setup my RetroPie image (3.6 image) I setup my configuration in Emulation Station using my arcade buttons (via IPAC4). Of course, ES saw this as a keyboard. Everything went fine.

I have all of my buttons setup in configs/all/retroarch.cfg so that all four players are mapped to joystick directions and buttons like so:

input_player1_a = alt
input_player1_b = ctrl
input_player1_y = shift
input_player1_x = space
input_player1_start = num1
input_player1_select = num5
input_player1_l = z
input_player1_r = x
input_player1_left = left
input_player1_right = right
input_player1_up = up
input_player1_down = down

and so on with players 2,3,4.

No other input configs apply in configs/arcade/retroarch.cfg (nor mame-libretro).

If I launch Vindicators with lr-mame2003, press TAB on my external keyboard, then configure inputs (this game), then arrow down to "P1 Left/Up".
ENTER
press UP, Left, Left in sequence, wait a moment for it to save, I get this written in the box:

UP RetroPad1 Up LEFT RetroPad1 Left LEFT RetroPad1 Left

Which is a bummer. No "not LEFT" like I would expect. What do you get when you do it?

This "UP RetroPad1 Up" reads as though everything is a double-entry on my end. Like it can't do a NOT because it is detecting both a LEFT and a RetroPad Left at the same time.

Ideas?

[dankcushions]

@caver01 ok that makes sense - what I think is happening is that mame2003 handles keyboard and joystick/gampad presses independently. eg, you can bind your keyboard's LEFT ARROW to RetroPad1 Left (within retroarch global configs), but when you press it in mame2003 it will read both the keyboard LEFT ARROW press, AND RetroPad1 Left in the same input poll. this appears to be messing with the CODE_NOT stuff.

i can see some code related to this in https://github.com/libretro/mame2003-libretro/blob/dfea13cbb7a3ece51e84e8e02b87a486ab181beb/src/input.c so i will try and find a way to ignore duplicate presses somehow.

[Riverstorm]

@caver01 said in Configuring <CODE_NOT> Control Mapping in lr-MAME2003?:

If I launch Vindicators with lr-mame2003, press TAB on my external keyboard, then configure inputs (this game), then arrow down to "P1 Left/Up".
ENTER
press UP, Left, Left in sequence, wait a moment for it to save, I get this written in the box:

UP RetroPad1 Up LEFT RetroPad1 Left LEFT RetroPad1 Left

Which is a bummer. No "not LEFT" like I would expect. What do you get when you do it?

This "UP RetroPad1 Up" reads as though everything is a double-entry on my end. Like it can't do a NOT because it is detecting both a LEFT and a RetroPad Left at the same time.

Ideas?

I have an IPAC 2 which I can test tonight which would be similar.

If I remember right the way MAME works is you would press Enter, Up and let it register. Then without leaving the line (if you leave the line with an up/down arrow and go back it will start over erasing everything). Then press Enter, Left, Left and it will register the NOT Left. Which would be up-but-not-left. If that's what you're trying to do?

What I usually do is like for player 1 coin in on a XBOX controller is press Enter, Keyboard 1 and let it register. Then press Enter, Joystick 1 Select and let it register. That way I can use my IPAC/Keyboard button 1 for coin in and also Joystick 1 Select on the controller. I can basically use keyboard or joystick.

For player 2 I press Enter, Keyboard 2, let it register. Then Enter, Joystick 2 Select, let it register. Then Enter, Joystick 1 Select+Joystick Left, let it register. What this does is allows me to use the IPAC/keyboard button 2 for coin in for player 2, joystick 2 Select for coin in and also joystick 1 Select+joystick left.

Basically it allows player 2 to fully use their joystick but also I can add coins from joystick 1 too. For player 3 it's Keyboard 3 & Joystick 3 Select & Joystick 1 Select+Down and for player 4 it's Keyboard 4 & Joystick 4 Select & Joystick 1 Select+Right.

I repeat the same process with Start, Start+Left, Start+Down, Start+Right for players 1-4 start. That way when playing games like Gauntlet in addition to their own controllers working I can also start and add coins from joystick 1. Joystick 1 is kind of like the master joystick in a sense.

[caver01]

@Riverstorm What you are describing is how MAME does <CODE_OR> mapping. Waiting for it to register, then, without leaving the line, hitting enter and doing another keymap will <OR> them together (either one will register the input). I can't get it to recognize an intentional double-tap under any circumstance--only the ones done in error, and I can't tell what causes that (I suspect a flakey microswitch).

The thing is, I can do these mappings just fine in AdvanceMAME, so it's not like I am inept with this process.

Hearing your success with this makes me think I have something going on with my configuration. By that, I mean, something could be amiss with my base retroarch.cfg. I shouldn't be seeing "LEFT RetroPad Left" when I map to the left arrow on a keyboard. That just reads like two separate inputs. It makes sense that it won't allow me to do a <CODE_NOT> because it thinks I am pressing two keys at once (the raw keyboard key and the RetroPad virtual).

It makes me wonder what might happen if I try mapping all of my player controls to "nul" in retroarch.cfg. MAME should then just see the raw keyboard inputs. But I am curious how your IPAC is setup.

One thing I will say is that I haven't been getting double inputs. Dropping a coin, for example, doesn't give me two credits.

[Riverstorm]

@caver01 said in Configuring <CODE_NOT> Control Mapping in lr-MAME2003?:

But I am curious how your IPAC is setup.

No I never thought you to be inept at all. If there's any files or information I can pass along just let me know. I will test it out tonight. I have a Pi but not the IPAC with me as it's in the case. :)

[caver01]

@Riverstorm Tests with an external keyboard interest me. Thinking this through, I suspect anyone who uses handheld controllers and hooks up a USB keyboard to do this test does NOT have the keyboard setup in retroarch.cfg (lines with inputs mapped to keyboard keys). Maybe I am wrong, but I am still thinking mame2003 is recognizing both the virtual retropad and the raw key being pressed, as revealed by the resulting line displayed (compare mine to @dankcushions notes).

[caver01]

@dankcushions @Riverstorm Ok, PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE! Yippee!

Here's what I discovered:

If I remove all of my player input bindings from retroarch.cfg, I can do some <CODE_NOT> bindings in MAME2003 GUI. However, it fails when I try to map the Player1 joystick and buttons. For those, it is still recognizing double-inputs. For example, LEFT on the player 1 joystick (which the IPAC sends as the left arrow key) is coming in as LEFT RetroPad1 Left. Whereas, outside of Player one controls, keys come as they are. For example, LEFT on the Player 2 joystick registers as d and has none of this RetroPad2 Left virtual input attached.

If I re-edit retroarch.cfg and force-bind all of my Player1 inputs to "nul" I can do <CODE_NOT> bindings in MAME2003 GUI and even regular bindings show up as only the key inputs (i.e. pushing LEFT on the P1 joystick binds in the GUI as LEFT and doesn't include the virtual RetroPad Left.

So, here are my initial conclusions about what is going on:

1. RetroArch sends the virtual inputs (via RetroPads) to MAME2003, as it should, but when the RetroPads happen to be KEYBOARD keys, MAME2003 "hears" both the RetroPad input and the raw key input. This is why TAB works, even though I don't have it bound anywhere in retroarch.cfg. It's also why the inputs I DO have setup in retroarch.cfg show up as both the raw key and the RetroPad input TOGETHER which prevents issuing a <CODE_NOT> (because it is already capturing a <CODE_AND>. Finally, it explains why folks who use handheld controllers don't have this problem. Their virtual inputs aren't raw keypresses, so MAME only sees the RetroPad.

2. Even if I remove the Player1 bindings in retroarch.cfg, MAME still sees a RetroPad on Player 1 controls. I am thinking there's some kind of EmulationStation-to-RetroArch thing happening here where the initial setup in ES is automatically configured in the cores. The only recourse is to force-bind "nul" to the same.

So. . . I think I have uncovered a bit of a mess. MAME should not be allowed to see both the RAW input and the virtual one at the same time IF THEY ARE BOTH THE SAME RAW KEY. I don't know how one would correct for this programatically. Maybe it has been dealt with in other cores. The only folks affected are those of us who use keyboard controllers as these create raw inputs that MAME sees by default.

We don't want to block the RAW keyboard inputs since not everything has an equivalent input on the RetroArch side. I could just bind everything to "nul" but this seems messy. Moreover, how would I handle that configuration when I want to keep the bindings for FBA (it looks like the lr-mame2003 uses the retroarch.cfg in the Arcade folder--what about FBA?) Does anyone know about a way to BLOCK the Virtual RetroPad inputs for one emulator core? That would be preferred approach.

[dankcushions]

@caver01 nice job! sounds like my theory earlier was right.

Does anyone know about a way to BLOCK the Virtual RetroPad inputs for one emulator core? That would be preferred approach.

my plan before was to block the raw keyboard inputs IF they match the RetroPad inputs. i need to break through the code i linked to earlier to see if that's viable.. maybe this could be logged as an issue against lr-mame2003?

[caver01]

@dankcushions Yes. That would do the trick! Sorry, I completely missed your reply, but your interpretation is proving to be correct. And, because two inputs are detected, the double-taps are ignored--each attempt looks like two buttons pressed simultaneously.

Would you like me to try to post the issue against lr-mame2003? I've never done that.