Setting up a Ipac2

caver01

i buy use these all the time. I get them from ebay.

Me too. I make all of my USB cables from scratch now. Custom lengths are really convenient. I also like to sheath them with paracord.

edmaul69

@caver01 i have a lot of paracord in tons of colors. I never tought of that. But yeah folding and tying up cables is a thing of the past. I make everything to exact length now. So much cleaner

Riverstorm

@edmaul69 said in Setting up a Ipac2:

i used one of the diagrams to wire it up. For the usb end i buy use these usb plugs all the time. I get them from ebay.

I had no idea they made USB ends like that! I'll be ordering a few that's really handy. I had never thought of using paracord in that capacity either. Really clever! I have those bracelets attached all over to "go packs" with flash lights, batteries, dynamo crank weather radio's, supplies, etc., etc. Now I have an excuse to buy a few more! ;)

edmaul69

@riverstorm i wear one of the bracelets every day. I have evacuation packs and survival food because you never know when a natural disaster or any other situation might happen. Gotta always be prepared. And i keep a lot of paracord around.

Riverstorm

@edmaul69 said in Setting up a Ipac2:

Gotta always be prepared.

Agreed. A little preparedness in the wake of all these catastrophic hurricanes or one bad tornado can make all the difference for sure. At home I am sitting good and when mobile I only carry a few small EDC items on my keychain (mainly a micro light, key size cutting tool & $50) just in case. I've had to use the $50 before and it works as not to big and not to small to break. All 3 items are just a couple ounces. In my car a small waterproof kit and some survival tip cards, signal mirror, whistle, etc. Bigger items in the trunk. Cold is an issue here too as I am close to the Canadian border. Even a few decks of waterproof cards for entertainment. They say half the battle is psychological.

I need get a hold of some good military rations. It was probably about 10 years ago and my younger brother opened an old Vietnam ration meal my uncle gave him while we were sitting around a fire. He ate the whole thing and never did get sick. I am not sure I would have done it but I think it was a testosterone fueled moment while drinking with a bunch of guys. It seemed a good testament to the longevity though.

My wife says I'm weird or what a nerd but in the same breath she basically says shes really glad I do those types of things. :)

A quick question for you. Are you guys cutting old cords when making custom lengths or do you order it in bulk with the ends or something?

edmaul69

@riverstorm i buy my paracord in 500ft pre packaged for black and for colors my local army surplus sells it by the foot so i buy them at 500ft lengths. On top of black i buy neon colors just in case i need it to be noticeable for any emergency purpose. Then i also make neon bracelets for the kids.

caver01

@riverstorm I bought 4-conductor shielded and insulated USB wire and a bunch of connectors, heat shrink, and I make my own from scratch and cover them in paracord sheath.

. That is a simpler, solderless version, and I usually make them with ends that I solder for better durability.

I replaced all of the various kinds of USB cables in my arcade cabinet with perfect, custom lengths. I don't use paracord for my arcade cabinet, but for other cables, like mech keyboards and chargers I do.

I also do iPhone lightning cables, but those I do make out of old cables. My cat likes to chew on plastic charge cords and he ruins plenty, so I save them for the lightning cable end so I can re-solder them to new USB. The cat does not bother the paracord.

battlecat

@caver01 I have read the document and it is a great start. Unfortunately you are right I did already know relatively what is in the document.

The section "Emulation Station and RetroArch" says "It is ultimately up to you to decide which of your wired buttons will correspond to the virtual gamepad inputs used by the different emulators."

I feel that making an assumption about the setup of the iPac would be useful here. Given that an iPac2 or iPac4 has a specific set of inputs is there a way to publish a opt/retropie/configs/all/retroarch.cfg that is specifically tailored to each device?

That would save a lot of effort on the part of the person setting up the iPac+RPi#+Retropie.

Yes, I realize I am making the assumption that whoever is setting this up will not be using any additional USB joysticks and sticking to using the iPac2 or iPac4.

I am still trying to wrap my head around the whole abstraction layer with the RetroArch emulators. I think that something that is frustrating is when a person sets the system up by going through the first run setup they, meaning me, expects that setup to work in everything. When in reality the only time the first run setup works for all the emulators is if your using an X-Box controller yes?

The other thing that I hear a lot of my colleagues complain about is how hard it is to set up a player 2 controller in the console games. Do you think this will ever be addressed?

caver01

@battlecat I get that there is a bit of a cop-out with my statement that leaves an excess of possibilities out there, but I hesitate to post a .cfg file when examples of how these work are already available. As much as a turn-key solution could benefit certain people, I have always seen this project (and really ANY project with the Raspberry Pi) as a learning opportunity. I'd rather give someone the knowledge to build and customize their own config and understand how and why it works than to hand over something that may or may not work and that I would need to support down the road.

Here's a good example: Your question about Player 2 console gaming seems relevant, and although I have a few consoles setup, my focus is 99% on arcade games. Suddenly, I am not an expert in an important facet of that setup, and that is going to happen almost immediately because everyone has different ideas about what they want to accomplish. For example, how many users out there are building a 4-player cocktail cabinet to play vertical games rotated sideways so they need to re-orient Player 3 and 4 controls for games like Gauntlet and Stone Ball? My files are unique.

I guess I am saying, I could build a .cfg file but my own system build is unique and my IPAC is not even running the default mapping (not to mention it is a very early model with a slightly different set of configuration possibilities). I could change a potential .cfg to meet what I think are common demands, but I couldn't really test it. In some respects, the forums are better-suited for discussing specific use cases while the Wiki can provide a base for reference.

One of the things that resonates with me is the idea you mentioned that when a new user goes through the first-run steps, you could expect them to think they are done, configured, ready to add ROMs and play. But, as someone who has been doing this for years, the experience has always been way more complicated than that. Sure, some emulators will be ready to go, but others may not be installed, may not be Retroarch Libretro cores, may require editing config files to setup Player 2, etc. I think it's an accurate observation that as simple as it could be, there are many situations that require extra help. It's why we spend so much time on the forums exploring ideas and helping each other. Perhaps the true, low-hanging-fruit is the use case you described--the user who simply plugs in an X-Box controller and has a casual notion to play some retro console games. For those cases, the First-Run process is probably enough. I would not put IPAC customers in the same group.

Maybe we could put together a list of conditions like:
Using IPAC2, configured as Keyboard with ALL DEFAULT mapping
2-players, each using : six action buttons, Start, Select and Joystick, Start and Select.
Then say, if this is your setup, here's an example of the controls defined in the all/retroarch.cfg and list the relevant mapping. What do you think?

caver01

@andershp said in Setting up a Ipac2:

@caver01 Good work. Would've helped me back in the day.
Shouldn't this guide link to your keyboard controllers guide?

I thought of the the Keyboard (IPAC) wiki I wrote the other way around. I thought of it in reference to your link, which I pointed to inside the document. That guide is written from the gamepad perspective which is probably the more common use case. Still, if the my Keyboard Controller guide has traction, it would make sense to link to it from there too.

dankcushions

@battlecat said in Setting up a Ipac2:

I am still trying to wrap my head around the whole abstraction layer with the RetroArch emulators. I think that something that is frustrating is when a person sets the system up by going through the first run setup they, meaning me, expects that setup to work in everything. When in reality the only time the first run setup works for all the emulators is if your using an X-Box controller yes?

no, not at all. i can't speak for ipacs, but to setup a USB controller (xbox, ps4, snes clone, whatever), is the exact same process as any other USB controller: https://retropie.org.uk/docs/Controller-Configuration/

The other thing that I hear a lot of my colleagues complain about is how hard it is to set up a player 2 controller in the console games. Do you think this will ever be addressed?

if you have two of the same controller, by doing the above you've set up player 2 already. if you have 2 seperate controllers, you'll have to either unplug player 1 (to trigger the https://retropie.org.uk/docs/Controller-Configuration/ screen), or 'configure input' in the emulationstation menu. it seems intuitive to me?

perhaps a better way could be to force the configure input screen every time an unknown controller is plugged in... maybe that already happens?

caver01

@battlecat It sounds like @dankcushions has some good suggestions for some of the challenges we hear about. If anything, these are problems and solutions outside the domain of keyboard controllers. If they really are frequent issues, perhaps there is a Troubleshooting > FAQ item is worth adding.

One of the problems with any documentation we could add is getting people to find it and read it, so there are diminishing returns on the time you could invest in writing docs. Still, I think it's worthwhile to build a base to reference.

caver01

@battlecat said in Setting up a Ipac2:

I am still trying to wrap my head around the whole abstraction layer with the RetroArch emulators.

I was thinking of making an infographic to illustrate the abstraction layers for people who have trouble visualizing it. I myself have had some interesting mind-bending sessions trying to remap a NeoGeo setup to Street Fighter with tables to get games to play correctly with MY button positions in FBA. I finally got it using a per-rom config file, but I could see how someone might throw in the towel not knowing where to begin.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Setting up a Ipac2:

I bought 4-conductor shielded and insulated USB wire and a bunch of connectors, heat shrink, and I make my own from scratch and cover them in paracord sheath.

That's perfect that's what I was wondering.

battlecat

@caver01 Thanks for responding.

I guess I see it like this. If you own a X-Box controller or two the setup is going to be consistent (pretty much) for each controller.

If you own an iPac2 or4 there is going to be a standard setup for each of those devices as well. For instance the iPacs have a set number of default inputs. Why make it hard to setup the retropie emulators if you stick to the standard default settings?

This is in part why I have stuck to the mame4All and AdvancedMame emulators. Each of those emulators is already ready to accept historically commonly accepted inputs for MAME.

I have been googling for an answer and reading documentation and I am amazed how many people using iPacs for arcade controller interfaces can't get the other built in emulators to just work with the iPacs.

I realize that I am probably not making a good impression here. I do realize that the average person coming to a Retropie setup will just buy the xbox controller because the point for them is to play the games not to learn to program or edit text files.

I recently have thrown my hands up when it comes to getting NES to play correctly and simply bought a set of USB controllers for the Retropie. I now hang them on hooks on the side of the cabinet when not in use. Of course it would have been nice to get the games to run with the arcade controllers.

I cannot figure out how to get things like FBA to exit using the same keyboard combo of P1+P2 or esc like the other mame emulators.

I do appreciate the help. I think though my the time put into this hobby just getting a controller to work across the board may be more than I am willing to dedicate.

caver01

@battlecat I know we can get you fixed up with a keyboard controller and libretro cores. It is true, the standalone emus like AdvanceMAME may seem better-suited because the default MAME key mapping is a match out of the box, but you are missing out on some of the benefits of RetroArch.

If you want to take the plunge, we need to talk specific emulators. Maybe on another thread we could look at your retroarch.cfg files?

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Setting up a Ipac2:

I was thinking of making an infographic to illustrate the abstraction layers

That would be great and really helpful as that challenge will probably be around for the foreseeable future. I had trouble understanding it.

Maybe we could put together a list of conditions like:
Using IPAC2, configured as Keyboard with ALL DEFAULT mapping
2-players, each using : six action buttons, Start, Select and Joystick, Start and Select.
Then say, if this is your setup, here's an example of the controls defined in the all/retroarch.cfg and list the relevant mapping. What do you think?

I could see that being helpful also to view a snip-it of the all/retroarch.cfg where modifications would need to be made for a specific example to work from.

I know with the iPAC after going through the initial "keyboard" configuration on bootup I change my input_enable_hotkey = & input_exit_emulator =. I think the default all/retroarch.cfg start is enter and select is rshift. I change start to 1 and select to 5 during the initial config which in MAME are player 1 start and player 1 coin. Then I go back and change my hotkey and exit in retroarch to match MAME as 1 & 2 to exit. It sounds like a lot of hoop jumping but really it only takes a few minutes but that's MAME and not consoles.

@battlecat I feel that making an assumption about the setup of the iPac would be useful here. Given that an iPac2 or iPac4 has a specific set of inputs is there a way to publish a opt/retropie/configs/all/retroarch.cfg that is specifically tailored to each device?

Could you explain more here @battlecat? When it comes to these "keyboard" input devices you have to make assumptions from the get go I was thinking. The first thing I did was check the default keys of the iPAC, setup a button layout on my cab/box & then wired the physical buttons to the iPAC knowing button 1 (1SW1) is set to l-ctrl by default. When you boot up RetroPie for the first time and it asks for button A input your probably going to use l-ctrl or whatever your button 1 layout is on the cab which is hardwired to the iPAC's 1SW1 or another input as the default key. Unless you want to change them from the defaults.

My thought is you almost don't need to make assumptions as you have to plan and premeditate when using an iPAC or I might be misunderstanding what you're saying it might be helpful to make an assumption.

I keep wondering do joysticks work with consoles or maybe the early ones like NES, SNES, Atari 2600 (I think was analog but only 8-way?) Were they simple 8 way d-pad inputs or were they "full" analog?

Riverstorm

@battlecat said in Setting up a Ipac2:

I recently have thrown my hands up when it comes to getting NES to play correctly and simply bought a set of USB controllers for the Retropie.

Sorry you posted between posting. I was slow! :) I don't remember doing anything extra and with the default keys I can play Mario. Bros. on the NES fine.

I cannot figure out how to get things like FBA to exit using the same keyboard combo of P1+P2 or esc like the other mame emulators.

When using Retrorach you might need to verify input_enable_hotkey = & input_exit_emulator = to get Retroarch to match MAME. It's exactly what I do for consistency. That's kind of what I was trying to explain in the example in the other post.

@caver01 has the most complex setup I heard of. If he can't walk you through it--no one can! ;)

battlecat

@riverstorm so given the iPac2's P1+P2 exit combo being the same as ESC what do you set "input_enable_hotkey = & input_exit_emulator =" in what file?

Thanks,
BC

caver01

@battlecat you set those in /opt/retropie/configs/all/retroarch.cfg