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    FBA vs. MAME

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Discussion and Gaming
    final burn alphmame2003
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    • caver01C
      caver01 @Pussyfoot
      last edited by

      @pussyfoot It used four buttons with two on the left and two on right which amounts to the same as a set of two 2-directional sticks. UP or Down, for ether the left or right side.

      Still, I agree, some of the control is not as intuitive as you might think for Toobin. I found playing with some of the combos helps, but I also suck at the game anyway, so it hardly matters.

      My 4-player cocktail style cabinet built as a custom "roadcase"

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      • pjftP
        pjft
        last edited by

        One game I just tested that surprisingly performed better in MAME rather than in FBA is "The Cliffhanger - Edward Randy". In FBA it stays at 55fps or so while it runs full speed in MAME. I wonder if the emulation for the game is fine in MAME.

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        • L
          LinuxArcadeGuy @Pussyfoot
          last edited by

          @pussyfoot most of those games require samples to be located in \retropie-device\bios\fba

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          • AndersHPA
            AndersHP @caver01
            last edited by

            @caver01 said in FBA vs. MAME:

            @pussyfoot said in FBA vs. MAME:

            You have to edit the controls for Toobin to get it to work, but it runs great under AdvanceMAME.

            If you have 8-way joysticks, or using a gamepad, I would recommend setting up a "tankstick" control mapping scheme for Toobin which allows you to control the game with a single stick as follows:

            Here's a mapping for a single 8-way joystick to control two tank sticks:

            Game Control           Mapped to
            Right/Up               Up <not> Right     or    Left <not> Down
            Right/Down             Down <not> Right   or   Right <not> Up <not> Down
            Left/Up                Up <not> Left   or   Right <not> Down
            Left/Down              Down <not> Left   or   Left <not> Up <not> Down
            

            Can this work as a replacement for a 4-way restrictor plate in 4-way games, like Pacman and Donkey Kong, in retroarch.cfg, perhaps?
            The accidental up+right or left click can really make a difference in these games, and it's quite a hassle to rotate the plate underneath every time I want to play these games...

            My "Bubble Bobble" Themed Bartop Arcade
            My Gameboy

            sirhenrythe5thS P caver01C 3 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • sirhenrythe5thS
              sirhenrythe5th @AndersHP
              last edited by

              Toobin was indeed played with 4 buttons on the real cabinet .
              I recommend to use a joypad with 4 shoulder buttons.

              -- Retro-Achievements Username: SirALX --
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              • P
                Pussyfoot @AndersHP
                last edited by

                @andershp No. The problem with 4 way games is that the game program itself doesn't know how to handle diagonals. Let's use Donkey Kong as an example. Mario starts off running to the right. If you're pointing right-up or right-down, Mario should move right. How does the game know that? Well, the ONLY available movement is right, so that's the way it should be interpreted. What happens when we get to the ladder? The assumed horizontal movement of diagonal-up automatically becomes an "up" command. That's how it works on the home versions of Donkey Kong. However, the game was programmed that way to do that. The arcade version has no logic to do that. You'd have to literally hack the rom to add the logic to work with 8-way controllers.

                BTW, there was a hack in very old version of MAME to allow Defender and Stargate work with 4/8way controller rather than use a reverse button. I think it leveraged something that WAS in the rom, but it was taken out. Pugsy's cheats don't have an option for it, so it can't be enabled that way.

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                • caver01C
                  caver01 @AndersHP
                  last edited by

                  @andershp said in FBA vs. MAME:

                  Can this work as a replacement for a 4-way restrictor plate in 4-way games

                  I will add, there is the pitfall of thinking you can create a mapping that would work, if you did it something like this:

                  Game Control           Mapped to
                  Up                     Up <not> Right  or   Up <not> Left
                  Down                   Down <not> Right   or   Down <not> Left
                  Right                  Right <not> Down   or   Right <not> Up
                  Left                   Left <not> Down   or   Left <not> Up
                  

                  I would expect this kind of mapping to exclude corner controls, but it won't prevent gameplay mishaps like you would hope. In fact, it will probably play exactly the same way in 4-way games. As @Pussyfoot said, you would be walking up to a ladder, and swipe to up through a corner, The moment you hit the corner with both switches engaged, NOTHING WORKS. Mario is stuck until you release one or the other switches in the corner to point squarely into one of the 4 cardinal directions. Only then will Mario climb the ladder. This is basically how it works already, so having the mapping exclude the combinations does not really buy you anything. The problem is that the game does not know how to interpret the corners. It needs contextual logic:

                  Logic that goes something like:
                  "If the user is pushing the joystick in a cardinal direction, then pushes into a corner, take that as an input to move in the added direction."

                  With this logic, the game would allow you to orbit the joystick through the corners when you want to change direction. However, in order to prevent getting stuck, the game would also need this additional logic:
                  "If the user is pushing the joystick in a cardinal direction, then pushes into a corner, take that as a input to move in the added direction--but only if it is legally possible to move in that direction, otherwise, continue in the first cardinal direction."

                  With this, you could use the corners to your advantage, continuing on a path until the very moment it is possible to change directions.

                  With most 8-way setups, it is pretty easy to accidentally hit a corner. Sometimes you can adjust your actuator to prevent that, or make it easier or harder, depending on the games you like to play. There are no good solutions EXCEPT perhaps using the Xbox driver, which I understand lets you enable logic like this, but it apparently only works with gamepad devices, not keyboard input controllers.

                  My 4-player cocktail style cabinet built as a custom "roadcase"

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                  • GreenHawk84G
                    GreenHawk84
                    last edited by

                    I noticed when first playing the Pi last year that TMNT on Mame2003 had graphical glitches vs. FBA. I prefer FBA because it uses later romsets of CPS games which would lead me to believe FBA is the more accurate and up-to-date arcade solution.

                    DarksaviorD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • DarksaviorD
                      Darksavior @GreenHawk84
                      last edited by Darksavior

                      @greenhawk84 it is up-to date emulation and more accurate. As with any emulator that's more accurate, slowdowns will occur. I also use fba when I can but any game giving me slowdowns I use fba2012, then mame2003 then mame2010.

                      So like tmnt, sunset riders, and other konami games I get slowdowns on my oc'd pi2 at 1ghz with fba but they're full speed in fba2012.

                      GreenHawk84G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • P
                        Pussyfoot
                        last edited by

                        I discovered how to enable the hack for 8-way controls on Defender and Stargate. I made a post in the General area.

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                        • GreenHawk84G
                          GreenHawk84 @Darksavior
                          last edited by

                          @darksavior I use the Pi3 so lr-FBAlpha seems to run full speed.

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                          • P
                            Pussyfoot
                            last edited by

                            Updates:

                            mame-libretro: https://pastebin.com/bdi4aBh9
                            mame-advmame: https://pastebin.com/8Z2Y6YNz
                            Final Burn Alpha (fba): https://pastebin.com/sdYQ1w4D

                            Moved some more from FBA to MAME and AdvanceMAME depending on the performance. Popeye has glitchy text on FBA. Rampage World Tour is slow, so it got moved to MAME. The Strikers 1945 II and III games are too slow in FBA. It can be improved by overclocking the CPU in FBA, but why bother? The games are not emulated 100% in MAME 2003. I couldn't get them to run in MAME 2010. I settled for AdvanceMAME. Punchout is duplicated. Use MAME 2010 if you want to play it single screen. The default is the top screen, which makes the game unplayable. Go into the MAME video settings and choose the other screen. Use AdvanceMAME for both screens. Pole Position 1 and 2 required modifications to the inputs to work. I suspect these were also hacks built into MAME 2003 that are available when cheats are enabled, but I didn't confirm. Go to the TAB menu and choose inputs for the game. You will see settings that are highlighted in white that are mapped to a single keyboard key and nothing else. Select them and hit the delete key twice real fast. That should clear it out to the default, which will now use your gamepad.

                            I could not get Tron to work well. I don't have a spinner, so I wouldn't have been able to play it with just a gamepad anyway.

                            I was missing some real classics! Don't know how that happened.

                            pjftP 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • pjftP
                              pjft @Pussyfoot
                              last edited by

                              @pussyfoot

                              "The Strikers 1945 II and III games are too slow in FBA."

                              You need to enable the Kaneko speed hack option in the options menu for them to run well. I might have completely butchered that option name, though.

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                              • UDb23U
                                UDb23
                                last edited by

                                All this info about specific game control settings and hacks is really valuable.
                                What about putting all this in a shared file?
                                A spreadsheet with ROM name, optimal core and settings/tips/hacks would be great.

                                AndersHPA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • AndersHPA
                                  AndersHP @UDb23
                                  last edited by

                                  @udb23 I really second this. One MAME spreadsheet to rule them all.

                                  My "Bubble Bobble" Themed Bartop Arcade
                                  My Gameboy

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                                  • pjftP
                                    pjft
                                    last edited by

                                    Obligatory reference:

                                    https://xkcd.com/927/

                                    AndersHPA 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • AndersHPA
                                      AndersHP @pjft
                                      last edited by

                                      @pjft Hehe. But seriously, the tips in this thread should be gathered in some searchable place.

                                      I'd love to check out how other people play my favorite MAME games (which version/emulation is the best) and if there's any other tips to make them run even better, this should be there also.

                                      My "Bubble Bobble" Themed Bartop Arcade
                                      My Gameboy

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                                      • P
                                        Pussyfoot @pjft
                                        last edited by

                                        @pjft said in FBA vs. MAME:

                                        @pussyfoot

                                        "The Strikers 1945 II and III games are too slow in FBA."

                                        You need to enable the Kaneko speed hack option in the options menu for them to run well. I might have completely butchered that option name, though.

                                        The FBA compatibility spreadsheet suggested overclocking the CPU. I don't know about a speed hack, but the easy solution is to not use FBA since AdvanceMAME works fine as is.

                                        L 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • UDb23U
                                          UDb23
                                          last edited by

                                          Does anybody know if G-Stream G2020 is playable on Pi3 ? What core?
                                          It was added to MAME with v 115.

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                                          • L
                                            LinuxArcadeGuy @Pussyfoot
                                            last edited by

                                            @pussyfoot it means overclocking game emulaed cpu not the PI cpu, i set mine to 200% its under quick menu/options when you load a neo-geo based game

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