Advice on neogeo games in Arcade folder

caver01

@riverstorm Nope. As far as I know you are basically stuck with a global default setup in configs/all, then a system config in configs/arcade (which is the problem--it applies to every libretro emulator used), and then you are down to per-ROM configs. No way to sort it out by emulator while still using ROMs combined in the Arcade roms folder.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Advice on neogeo games in Arcade folder:

Nope. As far as I know you are basically stuck with a global default setup in configs/all

Ah ok, thanks, maybe down the road. I mainly use lr-mame2003 but as I move more over to lr-fbalpha it would be nice to have a system config vs. one for each game. Or if you mainly use lr-fbalpha there's a many only supported in lr-mame2000. It would be nice to not be forced to comprise a global config for all MAME emulators.

dankcushions

if you created your arcade/retroarch.cfg with lr-fbalpha in mind,
with mame(2003) you could then override that with an 'ALL' input config set via the mame menu (TAB/R2).

i'd like to change mame2003 so that its default inputs for CPS2, neogeo, etc, are in line with lr-fbalpha which make a little more sense, but it's one of those things that is tough to justify changing at this stage, now that so many have config'd their systems around the current defaults.

dankcushions

@dankcushions said in Advice on neogeo games in Arcade folder:

if you created your arcade/retroarch.cfg with lr-fbalpha in mind,
with mame(2003) you could then override that with an 'ALL' input config set via the mame menu (TAB/R2).

or... even better, just use a core override. for example - in fbalpha, set the controls via the RGUI to the way you want, and then save it via quick menu as a 'core override'. that will mean that fbalpha will load that override no matter what folder you launch from, and mame2003 could have its own, independent core override (or having nothing and fall back to the /arcade/retroarch.cfg settings)

Riverstorm

@dankcushions said in Advice on neogeo games in Arcade folder:

i'd like to change mame2003 so that its default inputs for CPS2, neogeo, etc, are in line with lr-fbalpha which make a little more sense

Thanks Dank, after testing out the Arcade 'folder' I really like the consolidation of all the MAME emulators under one "emulator". I think your ideas will be worth reworking my inputs. They are not nearly as complex as many. I would also need to redo some game configurations. I have a working image that I can play on while I slowly rework everything.

I did a ROM compare between lr-fbalpha (complete set) and the 300 or so ROMs I am using in lr-mame2003. Around 200 of those games are supported in lr-fbalpha. I think I will stick with lr-mame2003 for the smaller games and cut-over the problem games like Double Dragon, D&D games, etc. that are a bit choppy.

I am ok with changes that make more sense in the long run. We do it at work all the time, painful as it is. Computers. Hopefully someone will carry it on (this project) long after us baby boomers and gen-xers are gone. Hopefully the millennials and beyond can see the beauty in 8-bit retro-gaming and keep it alive. :)

Riverstorm

@caver01 Off topic but not worth a new thread. I've been testing the thermal paste vs tape we talked about a while ago on a Zero. They both seem to do well. I don't think paste is a clear knock out but maybe a preference and definitely an alternative if you don't have one or the other handy.

It's fairly rock solid when cool but when heated up it's a bit slippery but seems to sit fine. It's easy to break the cohesion if bumped when cool too which would be a CPU killer or a degradation in cooling but doesn't seem to effect the Pi to much when heated back up.

It can be a bit messy and a bit of trial and error getting the correct amount but it does work well. The tape I have been using is easy to pull off in a single piece. I've had some heatsinks where it is gooey and messy to remove though. Inside a larger unit I would do paste but if it's a small case that's portable being shoved in a bag, pocket, etc. I would probably use tape.

If I get some time I will sit down do more exact temp difference.

I was a bit disappointed in the Flirc 2 case for cooling. Aesthetically it's my preference but I just ordered a BIQU from what I read it cools better due to 3 points of contact on chips with a solid aluminum column vs. the Flirc which covers only the main chip and it's a hollow column not to mention the rubber top covers the hollow column which I would say holds in more heat.

That nice looking Wicked Aluminum case I hear cools incredibly well with it's chip contacts and paste. It's solid aluminum and screws together tightly so no slippage but when the BIQU is similar and about 6 times cheaper I'll give it a shot even if a few degrees warmer. Basically I am hoping to get rid of the fan and go all passive cooling overclocked. Ok longer than I thought but not surprising.

caver01

@riverstorm Interesting about the heat sink. My early advocacy against tape was that it is possible to have a bad product. I know there are good thermal tapes out there and likely kits that use good stuff, but I have also seen crap, so I recommend the thermal compound.

My sink never moved, but it was susceptible to sliding when bumped. After a year or so, the compound firmed up. I have also had good luck using it again inside a NESPi case with a 5 volt fan running off 3.3v (poor man's quiet mode). Shame to hear about the FLIRC.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Advice on neogeo games in Arcade folder:

Shame to hear about the FLIRC.

Poor man's quiet mode that's good. Yeah that's the other thing. The original tape that comes with the Flirc is thick. It's cut smaller by quite a bit from fully fitting the main SoC, not sure why. So I tried cutting a proper size piece from stock I had but it's to thin to fill the gap between column and chip. I read Artic (not Artic Silver) makes a thermal tape of different thicknesses.

The BIQU's columns are thinner than the chip (save some aluminum) from the pics but it's solid. Also you can't use the mounting holes on the back of the case as even low profile pan head screws short out on the bottom. They cut one big hole to cover all ports instead of individual.

The Flirc has nice attention to detail cutting around each port. The two tone case and rubber top are nice looking and feel but not geared as well toward cooling. Plastic bottom with holes.

The Wicked Aluminum did all things right the first time but at a ridiculous cost as the new B+ with an IHS (looks like it only covers the top of the SoC instead of enclosing it from the pics) almost makes it void now as I am sure it will not fit that case. The Flirc might be ok as the gap is fairly large and paste isn't even an option with the Flirc so the IHS might narrow it enough.

I suppose it's no different than "investing" to trick out a car or rims, hunting, fishing, RVing, oversized TVs, stereo equipment, whatever the hobby may be.

I read it's beneficial to take the time to sand the contact points to remove the paint on the BIQU for bonus cooling points. Keeping it level is key like lapping a CPU. I should have it this weekend to mess around with. Well I ordered it Amazon Prime anyway as we keep a subscription but Prime hardly means anything anymore. It seems very select on what arrives in two days.

Yes I've seen thermal compound "crust" when properly applied (thin enough) and screwed down after enough time but usually a few years. I think AS recommends around 100 cycles of heating and cooling to cure and maximize cooling.

It does look like it would work but without it being clamped down in some fashion it seems like it would loosen up between cycles or seasons. I know here we have extreme dry in the winter to extreme humidity in the summer and that makes a big difference. The freezing temps in the winter cause "frost heaving" pushing up solid concrete, footings and building foundations can be moved unless you keep them below the frost line but most contractors in this type of climate know better. Probably not quite the same thing but doors are more snug in the summer when full of moisture and loose in the winter when dry, windows, furniture, etc. That humidity can expand or lack of can crack and dry things out pretty badly.

The viscosity of compound changes when it's hot too making it more suspectable to moving. I did tin the SoC and just put a dab in the center. which misses the extreme corners if you look at the spread pattern. I remember going through that stage of applying and reapplying paste to a CPU to find the maximum cooling for your PC. You can get them (the corners) if you don't mind some excess squeezing out the sides but some of the metal based ones are electrically conductive and would require cleanup due to shorting. With some of the dual core CPUs Artic Silver recommends a thin line down the center but there's not enough room on the Pi. I dislike it when it squeezes out the sides and stains the motherboard CPU socket around the chip.

A good "clamp" might gain you a few degrees. Either way I agree I think paste or a good quality tape are going to keep the cooling well within spec.

caver01

@riverstorm said in Advice on neogeo games in Arcade folder:

Prime hardly means anything anymore. It seems very select on what arrives in two days.

Be sure to open a "chat" session when prime stuff is late. It only takes a couple minutes to file your complaint and they always offer five bucks in credit, or a Prime extension which is probably worth more.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Advice on neogeo games in Arcade folder:

Be sure to open a "chat" session when prime stuff is late. It only takes a couple minutes to file your complaint and they always offer five bucks in credit, or a Prime extension which is probably worth more.

Thanks for the tip I will definitely do that next time!

Riverstorm

Is the processing order from low to high as follows. Do the "direct" inputs from mame TAB input fit in here or are they processed outside the hierarchy?

Global Retroarch
System Retroarch
Core (Override)
ROM configuration

Just to follow up on the BIQU case (it arrvied on Saturday Caver ;). It does cool much better than the Flirc 2.

The columns are much slimmer than I thought from looking at pics. They also have "dimples" in the contact surface. Not sure what the reasoning is even though it's a molded case. Two dimples in the main SoC column and one in the ethernet(?) chip. The underside memory(?) chip had no dimples but the surface was convex and required sanding it down.

The contact surface on the columns sanded easy revealing the metal. The underside chip took a bit more work as it was convex and also tight to work inside the lip of the case. The top columns are open and easy to work with. I used a fairly high grit sand paper as my brother does auto body but 300 grit or so from the hardware store works. I used a small block to keep the sanding level.

I did a "cold press" with thermal paste and the columns hit near dead center. I used Shin-EtsuMicroSi vs AS5 as the viscosity is almost clay like-ish and it worked nicely to fill the dimples and set.

I was testing in an ambient of around 75F/24C. With the BIQU I leveled off around 56-57C. The Flirc 2 was around 74-75C. That's with all settings overclocked and a voltage bump.

Another noticeable drawback of the BIQU case is no visible lights as they are completely enclosed inside the case.

I like the BIQU as it cools easily in the 50s with no fans or extras. It's quiet and it's a decent case with a decent finish for around $12 US which is a good bit cheaper then the Flirc 2 even though I like the Flirc 2 look better.

Something I found interesting or I didn't think about really. Is the when I removed the Pi from the Flirc it was "stuck" it took about 10 minutes of gentle prying around the edges of the board to get the tape to break loose. There's no easy way to pull them apart as the Pi is slightly coutersunk into the top.

The other thing I noticed the tape was roughed up around the edges but smooth and flat in the center, basically untouched. I came to the conclusion that not all the SoC's are completely level so that chalks one up to paste being a better option in some scenarios. Plus with paste it comes apart much easier.

Riverstorm

@dankcushions said in Advice on neogeo games in Arcade folder:

or... even better, just use a core override. for example - in fbalpha, set the controls via the RGUI to the way you want, and then save it via quick menu as a 'core override'. that will mean that fbalpha will load that override no matter what folder you launch from, and mame2003 could have its own, independent core override (or having nothing and fall back to the /arcade/retroarch.cfg settings)

@dankcushions - Thank you I figured out how to do core override with the controller and saving it out but doing the same thing for the keyboard/IPAC doesn't seem to work that way. Unless I overwrote the arcade/retroarch.cfg. Which the main goal was to modify FBA IPAC/keyboard settings without affecting the default arcade/retroarch.cfg settings.

I found 2 workarounds that seems to work but was looking to get your feedback. In emulators.cfg I changed the config portion of the launch command to point to the fba/retroarch.cfg and that seemed to allow me to remap fba in another file fully without interfering with the MAME default settings in arcade/retroarch.cfg.

The other method is adding them to the FBA config (different from FB Alpha.rmp) which I had to manually modify as I don't see a save option for that file in RGUI. It seems to work like the core override (for controllers) but you can add keyboard settings/values like changing input_player1_x = "shift", etc.

With the FB Alpaha.rmp (core override remap) it seems to ignore keyboard commands added to it.

But it does seem to allow you flexibility with the Arcade folder to map each emulator the way you want using unique/different keys for each emulator