MAME ROW #88 - Renegade

[pjft]

Oooh! Renegade and Rod-Land! I never played the arcade version of Renegade so I'll give it a shot but if not my vote will go for Rod-Land.

Still need to try out GigaWing :)

[youxia]

Renegade, phew. ZX Spectrum port was a killer, one of my faves as a kid.

[obsidianspider]

Wow, the controls in Renegade are just, well, terrible. If there's a trick to get out of a headlock, someone please let me know.

Centipede is a classic and plays just as you'd think it should.

Rod-Land seems straightforward, but I'm not sure how to defeat enemies just yet. So far I'm going between Centipede and Rod-Land.

[lilbud]

@obsidianspider How well does centipede work without a trackball?

[obsidianspider]

@lilbud I'm just using a Genesis 6-button controller with a Raphnet adapter. Works well.

[youxia]

@obsidianspider said in MAME ROW #88:

Wow, the controls in Renegade are just, well, terrible. If there's a trick to get out of a headlock, someone please let me know.

Renegade is also a revolutionary classic. Nothing wrong with the controls, just a bit different is all. Once you get used to them you can pull all kinds of fun moves. To get out of the headlock press the "opposite" action button.

[pjft]

@obsidianspider The controls are meant to be [left attack] [jump] [right attack] according to the arcade cabinet:

http://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Arcade/Manual/formated/Renegade_-1986-_Technos.pdf

There's a few tips and controls there.

In regards to Rod-Land, I never got too far in it but it's always been a game that captivated me.

There's two ways to go at it:

• You can eliminate all enemies one by one (hit them with the rod, and then keep mashing the fire button), and eliminating them will give you other weapons (bombs, missiles, etc) or
• You can collect all flowers in the level and you temporarily get to a bonus stage where defeating them will give you letters that, when you collect the word "EXTRA" will give you an extra life and skip a few levels.

It's just that, AFAIK.

EDIT: @youxia I also played Renegade on the ZX Spectrum only, that was where I knew it from. That one and Target Renegade were favorites of mine.

[mediamogul]

@lilbud said in MAME ROW #88:

How well does centipede work without a trackball?

I have it and 'Millipede' mapped for analog control on my left thumbstick and it plays very smoothly. Without some method of analog input, the controls are pretty sensitive and you have no granular control over how fast or slow you want to move.

[pjft]

After going at it with both Renegade and Rod-land, I'm voting for Rod-Land as it might be the more pleasant experience for all. Renegade is a bit on the hard side and might put people off quickly. The controls also don't work very well on a gamepad - what worked best for me was to map jump to a shoulder button.

Still, if it ends up winning I'll certainly go at it.

[obsidianspider]

This week ended up being a tie between Renegade and Centipede. As we've done in the past in this situation I left it to the random number generator at random.org, with odd being Renegade and even being Centipede. The number chosen was 83, odd, so the winner is Renegade

[youxia]

Ah, the RNG God was on my side today :)

I really recommend this, despite the controls/difficulty woes voiced earlier. Two things:
-as @pjft mentions, rebind the action buttons, it really helps with the controls
-the game IS hard but also amazing, because the enemies are actually intelligent and you can use the environment to your advantage.

This is not your usual easy-peasy brawler where you are allowed to play on autopilot: the enemies will laff at your attempts to spam the same move all the time (you will hear the final GET LOST, PUNK! often if you do) and there is some actual strategizing required.

"Good luck, kid!"

Also, check out the original: Nekketsu Kōha Kunio-kun, it's in this MAME set. Renegade is the Westernized version, with some slightly bizarre things like these 2 stick-dudes from the first stage, who got kind of blackfaced from original sprites :)

[obsidianspider]

I tried Renegade again today and I still can't figure out how to break out of a headlock. I'm done with this week unless someone can explain to me what I'm supposed to do to make that work. "Opposite action button" didn't seem to work. I tried jump, punch, left, right, up, down, nothing worked.

[pjft]

Ok, so this is a somewhat difficult game. The majority of my scores are around 5k, as I die fighting the 1st level boss.

The only time I beat it, I made it to the second level with the motorbikes (the nostalgia!) and I also got an extra life (unsure if direct cause of beating level 1, or because I eventually crossed a specific score threshold).

I made it to the level 2 boss, and died with him only having 2 energy bars left.

I imagine I'll be more proficient from now on but I do need a break :)

Score: 38.900

It is substantially different to play with the arcade control panel as opposed to a joypad, mostly because of the jump + kick mechanics. That being said, I imagine it's not impossible - or that one can't get used to it.

The lock when someone grabs you from behind isn't really hurtful for you, I think. When in that position, you can kick to your front, to throw the enemy off balance (or actually hit someone who's coming to hit you) and then by pressing one of the attack buttons (can't quite recall which) you can throw the enemy or push it back. I'm not sure if it happens all the time, but that certainly happened a few times to me.

Something that worked for me is to get in a fight with people on both sides (1 each), and try to back kick the person on my back, as the kick has a longer reach. Then I could try to either continue hitting them, or grabbing one of them and throwing them the opposite direction.

You can run by double-pressing left or right (didn't know that from the ZX Spectrum version at least). Also, punching people while on the ground is good to kill them off. It works on all enemies but the boss.

[youxia]

"Somewhat difficult" is an understatement :D I actually finished it on Spectrum, here can't get through the 1st boss, so you're already well ahead @pjft. But I need to see those motorbikes (legendary haha) so will try again soon.

The headlock - or perhaps nelson of sorts: yeah, my earlier tip was bunk, you need to press both direction & action towards the guy that's holding you. Works every time. It actually does eat up your energy, but won't kill you. So here's a kamikaze strategy: get into headlock facing edge of platform: you can now kick everybody off, then boss comes, kick him until his energy is gone, break headlock...and then pray, because you have 0 energy, and you still have to finish him with some move :)

My level 1 strategy is mostly:
-lure the stick guy to the edge and jump-kick him off the platform
-dominate the other stick guy with punches/ground beatdowns and whatever else, yeah the back kicks are quite powerful.
You really don't want those 2 around when boss comes in.
Then whittle down the boss with jump kicks (the other punks get caught in it too)

So far it works well, but by that time my arthritis kicks in, my thumbs hurt and the boss batters me, even though he has 0 energy. Brutal game, but so was 70's NY gangland. I recommend watching The Warriors before playing :D

[pjft]

@youxia I think I also remember finishing it on the spectrum - didn't the last level have the boss shoot bullets from off screen that were a one-hit kill, but could also hit his own goons and kill them:) unsure if I made it on my own or with a poke?

The motorbike scene is surprisingly nice and more elaborate than what I remembered.

[youxia]

@pjft Woo, didn't remember about that last boss, now I just had a serious nostalgia wave. In fact, the Spectrum version is still off-limits for me, some games from that period are just too much nostalgia-wise.

I remember there was the Ladies Of The Night (dem whips) level after Hell's Angels and then a level inside a building. Target Renegade was also ok, though not as good. Couldn't you ride a motorbike there or something? And play co-op?
There was also a third game in the series, exclusive to ZX, but I've never played it.

Overall I'm really glad for this MAME draw, it got me back into brawler mode, one of my favourite genres. Currently playing the Kuni-Kuno games. Even the football (soccer) one, it's hilarious.

[pjft]

@youxia Ah, you're absolutely right, the "Ladies of the Night" level was the third one.

Target Renegade was quite nice for me at the time - you didn't get to ride a bike, but you could pick up weapons a la Double Dragon, and you could also do a forward jump kick, which changed things significantly. And, yes, there was co-op.

Renegade III was back in the stone age, if I recall correctly - at least the first level. Never played it much (if at all?) but read about it in the mags back in the day.

Should I go for River City Ransom next, then?

[youxia]

@pjft Yeah, RCR is next in the series (if you exclude the "dodgeball" entries). It's fairly awesome, though different than pure brawlers - open world-ish sort of stuff.

[obsidianspider]

I still can't break out of a headlock. This game is dead to me until someone can show me how they did it.

MAME ROW #89 is live.