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    mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support

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    • G
      grant2258 Banned @robertvb83
      last edited by grant2258

      @robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

      @grant2258 would you prefer to play 4-button games on a 6-Button layout as
      4
      123

      rather than
      34
      12
      ?
      I would not have taken this into consideration, it feels unnatural for me but interesting, that's all just personal preferences. as said it doesn't really affect me much.
      I am a little afraid that the majority will not easily come clean with the concept of core or game remap files, which once understood is a really comfortable way to get your collection configured quickly

      Well if i only used gamepads which i rarely do I would have that memory muscle pattern.

      Ive always used arcade type controls so my memory muscle patterns are towards that is all.

      Like you said at the end of the day its a generic starting point and we cant please everyone no matter which one we choose.

      Gamepad users will try get that same muscle memory pattern instead of an arcade style I do get where your coming from.

        L     R
           X
        Y    A
          B
      

      is the shape you seeking in your mind from gamepads

      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • RiverstormR
        Riverstorm @robertvb83
        last edited by Riverstorm

        @robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

        well described! this is exactly what should be done. I still think that
        345
        123
        is a valid baseline

        I don't think it's a bad setup but you loose a very useful feature and that's the ability to page up/page down in you game emulators. This feature is by default buttons LR (potentially 56) in MAME.

        If you have a large game list of 200 or 300 games it's handy to page down to the middle of the list vs. one game at a time that takes quite a bit longer. If you have over 1,000 it would be a nightmare to scroll down one game at a time.

        I am not sure of the exact goal of subtypes but I think they are perfect for beginners or out of the box up and running. As you become more familiar with RA then remaps are a great way to tweak your controls to perfection.

        I agree with Grant every input scheme/diagram for RA is 100% based on controllers and nothing around Arcade panels. I never really noticed until you pointed it out. I think your idea of leaving RA alone and remapping MAME is perfect. Then you're still rooted in RA but complete freedom with Plus to customize how you see fit.

        Gamepad users will try get that same muscle memory pattern instead of an arcade style I do get where your coming from.

         L     R
        
             X
        
          Y    A
        
            B
        

        is the shape you seeking in your mind from gamepads

        @robertvb83 - That IS the shape by default for gamepads. No need to seek it! :)

        I think what Grant has been saying for weeks now is really we have two separate things. Arcade panels and gamepads. Gamepads have been established and pretty much standard but he's trying to address is mapping RA gamepad buttons to MAME buttons not taking for granted physical layout needs to be taken into account.

        robertvb83R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • robertvb83R
          robertvb83 @Riverstorm
          last edited by robertvb83

          @riverstorm I think you mix up something! the subtype config we are talking about refers ONLY to ingame controls! this has nothing to do with controls within Emulationstation and scrolling through your list of games. This changes nothing to your controller layout anywhere outside a running game!

          think of it like this. You define your Retropad in Emulationstation like

          YXL
          BAR

          and you can use L and R for scrolling, then within Retroarch (after loading a game) this will be remapped to mame-buttons 1 to 6 in any order that you wish. so you can assign mame button 1 and 2 (e.g. shoot and jump) to whatever buttons you like. You never change YXRBAR you only change the assignment which physical button points to which mame button ingame function

          My full size arcade cabinet Robotron vs. Octolyzer

          G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
          • G
            grant2258 Banned @robertvb83
            last edited by grant2258

            @robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

            @riverstorm I think you mix up something! the subtype config we are talking about refers ONLY to ingame controls! this has nothing to do with controls within Emulationstation and scrolling through your list of games. This changes nothing to your controller layout anywhere outside a running game!

            think of it like this. You define your Retropad in Emulationstation like

            YXL
            BAR

            and you can use L and R for scrolling, then within Retroarch (after loading a game) this will be remapped to mame-buttons 1 to 6 in any order that you wish. so you can assign mame button 1 and 2 (e.g. shoot and jump) to whatever buttons you like. You never change YXRBAR you only change the assignment which physical button points to which mame button ingame function

            this is correct well it is now this is not the case for mame2003 though. Mark has made these changes.

            the only question is the defaults set not being right
            123
            456

            thats why you guys get to decide on a new new retropie_default_6 panel in a poll

            it is important to keep in mind everything is redifineable you can explain to people why they cant play 6 button games with your default that why i could never pick that one myself

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • RiverstormR
              Riverstorm
              last edited by

              @robertvb83 - Ooops yeah that's right ES has different controls defined elsewhere but I think the core issue is still the same mapping RA to MAME in a functional way depending on where you drill those holes! ;)

              G robertvb83R 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • G
                grant2258 Banned @Riverstorm
                last edited by grant2258

                @riverstorm

                he has this layout

                 3 4 5
                _______
                |o o o| 
                |o o o|
                
                 1 2 3
                -------
                
                best i can do with ascii
                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • robertvb83R
                  robertvb83 @Riverstorm
                  last edited by robertvb83

                  @riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                  @robertvb83 - Ooops yeah that's right ES has different controls defined elsewhere but I think the core issue is still the same mapping RA to MAME in a functional way depending on where you drill those holes! ;)

                  sure but what I am saying you don't loose any functionality with
                  345
                  123

                  so I am counting on your vote for this as basis in the upcoming poll :-D

                  btw see my signature. its linked to my cabinet with pictures of my control panel layout

                  My full size arcade cabinet Robotron vs. Octolyzer

                  G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • G
                    grant2258 Banned @robertvb83
                    last edited by grant2258

                    @robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                    @riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                    @robertvb83 - Ooops yeah that's right ES has different controls defined elsewhere but I think the core issue is still the same mapping RA to MAME in a functional way depending on where you drill those holes! ;)

                    sure but what I am saying you don't loose any functionality with
                    345
                    123

                    so I am counting on your vote for this as basis in the upcoming poll :-D

                    you do loose functionality for 6 button games again up people can vote for the retropie_choice thats the fairest and easiest way. If i was setting my panel up like that id just throw it out and just plug a gamepad in instead. The whole point is these panels can handle the configurations a gamepad cant thats why you need separate controls for sf2 and neogeo with a gamepad if you and most user want a gamepad emulated on panel i can live with that we still have the other panel default

                    robertvb83R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • robertvb83R
                      robertvb83 @grant2258
                      last edited by robertvb83

                      @grant2258 nah, 6 button games are considered to be manual configured as we all like to comfortably rest our palms and use bottom row primarily.
                      456
                      123
                      is also not feasible for 6 button games, you will need
                      123
                      456
                      so there is a clear advantage for
                      345
                      123

                      I feel a little tired, too much has been said about this more-complex-than-I-ever-thought topic

                      My full size arcade cabinet Robotron vs. Octolyzer

                      G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • G
                        grant2258 Banned @robertvb83
                        last edited by grant2258

                        @robertvb83

                        for you in gamepad world this works
                        345
                        123
                        i would never use that on a 6 panel set up i would rebin straight away
                        to
                        123
                        456
                        or
                        456
                        123

                        i do understand you want a gamepad shape. i want aracde shapes we can support both if people want panel shaped like a snes pad they can vote for it is just not for me is all im saying your views are as valid as mine it personal choice

                        G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • RiverstormR
                          Riverstorm
                          last edited by

                          @grant2258 - I don't think the ASCII is displaying correctly.

                          sure but what I am saying you don't loose any functionality with

                          345

                          123

                          so I am counting on your vote for this as basis in the upcoming poll :-D

                          Ask not what MAME can do for you but what you can do for MAME! I need your vote! When I see that layout it reminds me of a hybrid panel/controller. When the goal is a panel layout.

                          Just to understand better though what games do you play with 34 above 12?

                          When I map NES, SNES, Atari, etc. I do use that layout with a core change in that emulator. I am thinking strictly of MAME here. I am not sure what to think of using 3 twice and dumping button 6 altogether.

                          I think over 90%? possibly 95%? don't use 6 buttons so 456 123 seems a better fit to me mostly and remap that little percentage as 123 456 for 6 button games. :)

                          robertvb83R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • G
                            grant2258 Banned @grant2258
                            last edited by

                            I would really like you guys to submit a panel 8 layout as well that you would use. For more choice on the poll

                            G RiverstormR 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • G
                              grant2258 Banned @grant2258
                              last edited by grant2258

                              @grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                              I would really like you guys to submit a panel 8 layout as well that you would use. For more choice on the poll

                              im guessing robert will be or something similar it nice to have alternative ideas
                              3456
                              1234

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • RiverstormR
                                Riverstorm @grant2258
                                last edited by

                                @grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                                I would really like you guys to submit a panel 8 layout as well that you would use. For more choice on the poll

                                Shoot! I have 2 panels and 1 mini arcade cabinet all are 6 buttons. I haven't even gave thought to 8. I wish I wold have though so I could cover Neo-Geo games as 1234. :)

                                I am honestly ok with any setup but for some reason dumping a button altogether and dual binding another seems a bit "different". I can't think of a single arcade game that stacks 34 above 12 in an arcade panel layout but then again there's 1,000's.

                                robertvb83R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • robertvb83R
                                  robertvb83 @Riverstorm
                                  last edited by

                                  @riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                                  @grant2258 - I don't think the ASCII is displaying correctly.

                                  Just to understand better though what games do you play with 34 above 12?

                                  ONLY 4 Button games! if I had 8 buttons I would use
                                  5678
                                  1234

                                  because top row is irrelevant there are no games with 5 buttons (maybe a handful not in my interest)

                                  I would still need to do 6 button custom to fit to sf2
                                  1237
                                  4568

                                  My full size arcade cabinet Robotron vs. Octolyzer

                                  G 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • G
                                    grant2258 Banned @robertvb83
                                    last edited by

                                    @robertvb83

                                    how would you play you 4 player games on that you dont have

                                    34
                                    1234

                                    neogeo and mame are doable easily

                                    1234
                                    456

                                    456
                                    1234

                                    both work

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • robertvb83R
                                      robertvb83 @Riverstorm
                                      last edited by robertvb83

                                      @riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                                      @grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:
                                      I can't think of a single arcade game that stacks 34 above 12 in an arcade panel layout but then again there's 1,000's.

                                      so can you name me ONE game that stacks 4 above 1 like in
                                      4
                                      123

                                      sorry but this is just not the point! I would play them 1234 if I could! but I cant in my 6 Button layout! so there are only two possibilities for 4-Button games
                                      456
                                      123
                                      or
                                      345
                                      123

                                      and I prefer the latter

                                      My full size arcade cabinet Robotron vs. Octolyzer

                                      G RiverstormR 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • G
                                        grant2258 Banned @robertvb83
                                        last edited by grant2258

                                        @robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                                        @riverstorm said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                                        @grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:
                                        I can't think of a single arcade game that stacks 34 above 12 in an arcade panel layout but then again there's 1,000's.

                                        sorry but this is just not the point! I would play them 1234 if I could! but I cant in my 6 Button layout! so there are only two possibilities for 4-Button games
                                        456
                                        123
                                        or
                                        345
                                        123

                                        and I prefer the latter

                                        Well that clears thing up for me your ok with the 8 panel 4 in a row i was just curious. I can fully undestand you have this preference for a 6 button layout.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • RiverstormR
                                          Riverstorm @robertvb83
                                          last edited by Riverstorm

                                          @robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

                                          sorry but this is just not the point!

                                          I have to admit this seems to be the exact point. That layout that is. I can't name a single game that stacks 4 above 123 but 123 in a row seems to cover more arcade games then 34 above 12. Isn't the point to be closer to how an arcade panel would be laid out?

                                          robertvb83R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • markwkiddM
                                            markwkidd
                                            last edited by

                                            word to the wise: if you press enter in your post, then type three tildes ``` then press enter again, you go into fixed-width code mode.

                                            ASCII will line up correctly.

                                            At the end of the section you want in fixed-width code mode, you press enter, then enter three more tildes ``` and then press enter one more time.

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