Legal question

[shupe477]

I was meaning that I would basically walk them through the process of setting it up and not doing it myself. I wouldn't install roms for any reason for any of my customers. I'm just trying to find a way to help future customers without breaking any laws. Im not trying to make money off the retro pie program, I'm trying to sell my cabinets that I spend days working on and building from scratch that have custom lighting, vinyl artwork, and the look of an original cabinet without the weight and hassle of an original cabinet.

[saccublenda]

This post is deleted!

[Lurker]

I am very reluctant to reply to this post as the "How do I make money?" question is always fraught with peril and so many individuals trying to squeeze through some imaginary loop hole. As you can guess even the most noble of intentions will find a very harsh reaction as they tread the same ground as those who want to make a buck off others' work.

It is hard not to saddle the very next person to ask with all the left over frustration from the previous instance.

...
So, I will try to give a short version of what you are looking for.

What you want is not to sell arcades. You want to sell "cabinet kits". [there is a big foot note at the end]

Cabinets you build.
Joystick and buttons wired up.
LED lighting you installed.
and maybe even power switches and the lot.

What you are not selling and not including is a raspberry pi, the retropie software, roms or a prebuilt image.
That is not in your kit. Your kit is like an after market accessory.
You can include documents and walk throughs on how to set up a Pi that has step 1 as "Purchase a Pi "

Do a search for "arcade cabinet" or "arcade cabinet kit" and you will see the others who do this.

keeping it short That is the line. Your product does not come with a pi/image/roms or the other copyright material.

Here is the other foot note kicker I warned about above. Your cabinet also cannot have the copyright art work that a recreation of an arcade would have. You either leave it blank or create your own artwork that does not have the copyright IP characters.

OR you do the leg work to find a pool of IP characters that are in the public domain, but even then you have to be careful of copyrighted depictions of a public domain character.

My brief example; an artist friend of my who designed images for his little start up shirt company made a monster shirt with Frankenstein's monster as the center. Though old Frank is public domain the particular depiction he used (The well known hollywood version) was under copyright.

I am a strong advocate for people building their own cabinets instead of buying a kit. Even if you lack the skill it, like the retro pi itself is a learning experience and the project is part of that experience. Making it clear that I do not endorse them recroommasters is a good example of pre-built cabinet kits if you need an example of how the line is not crossed.

[mediamogul]

@lurker said in Legal question:

It is hard not to saddle the very next person to ask with all the left over frustration from the previous instance.

That's a very good thought and one that I try to keep in mind myself. It can be difficult sometimes with all the unscrupulous characters we've met over time.

My brief example; an artist friend of my who designed images for his little start up shirt company made a monster shirt with Frankenstein's monster as the center. Though old Frank is public domain the particular depiction he used (The well known hollywood version) was under copyright.

There's always Nosferatu, which ironically was a copyright violation itself originally. Seeing as how the courts ordered all existing prints be destroyed, we're extremely lucky that it survived to be in the public domain. Almost one hundred years later, it's still my favorite film adaptation of 'Dracula' (sorry Bela).

[Lurker]

@mediamogul I listened to the an audio book of Dracula recently having never actually read the book but familiar with much of the vampire lore and movies that came after and I have to say ... it was lame. I tried discounting that this was an older work and still trying the mantra "I know nothing of vampires" the story was still lame... meh at best.

Monster talk aside. I slid back to this thread to add one thing. Since it came up in another thread and was a good example.
If you want to see someone on the other side of the line.

gameroomsolutions steps across the line of legal. They have kits but also full pre-builds that includes the pi an image and roms. What their status is around Hyperpie (which is what they are including as an image) is something I don't even have to look into as the fact they are including the copyright artwork on the cabinets and the rom for the games that is enough to cross the line.

Whether any of the companies that could sue them will or send them a cease and desist is it own story. But since it came across my radar I thought I would put the other side of the coin here as well to complete the picture.

[mediamogul]

@lurker said in Legal question:

I listened to the an audio book of Dracula

While it's certainly possible and entirely acceptable that Bram Stoker's work just isn't to your liking, I would never recommend listening to an audio book for anything historically or culturally significant, especially a work of horror. Something like 'Dracula' is best experienced by getting absorbed in the act of reading the words with an inner voice that is wholly unique to each person. Having it read out loud while you're driving to work, folding laundry or even just passively sitting in a chair, depersonalizes the story and never allows for the possibility of letting your guard down and the intended atmosphere to take hold. Again, it's entirely possible that you still wouldn't like it in a box or with a fox, but you have to admit that when the story is being read aloud to you on the same device that's also used to talk with grandma and watch funny cat videos, any work of horror is probably going to lose quite a bit of its impact.

[Clyde]

@mediamogul @Lurker I don't want to hijack this thread any further, 😇 but as a quick reply (haha, didn't work) I'd like to add that I also prefer reading, sometimes with a suitable soundtrack in the background. But I also know that for those who don't like reading, audio books can be a great way to experience literature, and a good reader can complement or even improve the source material.

That said, I firmly second mediamogul that athmospheric audio books shouldn't be experienced on the way to work or while doing laundry. I recommend a quiet and dark room while doing nothing else but listen.

[mediamogul]

@clyde said in Legal question:

sometimes with a suitable soundtrack in the background.

I might have to try that sometime. I mean, I've read while listening to music plenty of times, but never really anything that was chosen to create a mood. Maybe a little synthwave and some Stephen King to get into the Halloween mood this year.

[Lurker]

@clyde said in Legal question:

I don't want to hijack this thread any further,

Raises tommy gun into the air
We're taking over this thread, see.
Everybody be cool and no one will get hurt see.
We are taking this thread to literary appreciation... ya, see.

@mediamogul @Clyde I agree with you both on many points. I love physically reading. I will even hunt for first edition hard backs or at the least hardback copies of books I like. I make similar arguments of appreciation the heft of a hardback book over an E-reader. That said I will also argue that with some practice one can split their awareness and become immersed in a good story while doing other tasks that do not require active thought. It is a trick and took a bit of practice.

I started listening to books due to a lack of opportunities to sit and read and a long commute with nothing to do but stop and go in the traffic. 191 audible.com books and 50 some odd non audible books later and I can attest that there is a meta level of immersion. Yes, it is different but I would argue not diminished and there are other elements that play into a good audio book, narration being a big one.

I do not listen to a book I have visually read because the narrator will never fit my inner voice. For the audio books the narrator becomes a big part of whether that story is good or not. I have had some books that were good stories but bad narration brought it down so many levels. It is one of the reasons I gave up on Game of thrones so many years ago. The pronunciation of the characters kept changing. One moment its Peter, then Pie-Tor then piTar. That combined with half an hour describing all of these different coat of arms only to have them all die in the very battle they were being introduced in.

Okay, better example. There is a series I put off for a long time due to the art work. Yes, I also judge books by their covers. That is what the cover is for. How else should I judge a book I have not read yet? Maybe it would be better stated "Do not judge a book ONLY by its cover." I digress. The series is called the Iron Druid Chronicles and the way the narrator depicted Oberon the Irish Wolf Hound (don't make me explain the talking dog) was prefect. He quickly become a favorite character and one book in the series had to get re-recorded because they used a different narrator who got Oberon wrong and the listener crowd was ... pissed.

On the other side of the coin I will also admit that even good narrators have a limit to their character ranges. Listening to a book with the same narrator has a previous unrelated story I have had to remind myself that no this is this character is a techno cyber punk private eye and not the comic book super villain from the other story. So ya there is that.

All that being said to emphasize the separation between narrator, narrative and immersion, I feel I can appreciate the story of Dracula even in the mode of delivery and you are again correct. I thought it 'meh' in a house. I thought i 'meh' with a mouse. I thought it 'meh' here or there . I thought it 'meh' anywhere. I have read and listened to horror stories that I felt delivered much better results in their suspense and creep factor and character reaction. So I believe my opinion is not based on a limitation of immersion.

Not to give up on the classics I think I will try H.G. Wells "The Invisible Man" next.

[Riverstorm]

@mediamogul said in Legal question:

the act of reading the words with an inner voice that is wholly unique to each person.

That's very well written. I have never heard it put that way and it fits perfectly. I've tried a few audio books and the voice, tone or inflection befits a tragedy especially when one voice is the entire cast (I've yet to listen to one in it's entirety). Out comes the yard stick and they always measure a few inches short. In your thoughts everything is precisely as you perceive it. Hearing others perception is the fun and interesting part.

[mediamogul]

@lurker

I do not listen to a book I have visually read because the narrator will never fit my inner voice.

I know exactly what you're talking about. The one time I tried this was with 'Ready Player One'. Whenever I commit to reading a book, I generally like it to be something new, but I wanted to revisit RP1 not long after I read it the first time. I thought the audio book would be a good way to do that, but while I have nothing against Wil Wheaton, I had real difficulties accepting him speaking for the characters in a different way than I perceived them. I finished it out, but I wouldn't do it again.

I thought it 'meh' anywhere.

That's perfectly fair. Interestingly enough, the original story that would become 'Dracula' was actually written on the same rainy night as the story that would become 'Frankenstein' as a parlor game to see who could write the best scary story. Even then, the three participants agreed that 'Frankenstein' was the more compelling tale. In an even greater coincidence, the third story went on to become the plot for 'The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants 2'.

Not to give up on the classics I think I will try H.G. Wells "The Invisible Man" next.

Oh man, what a great choice. I was just thinking the other day that I should read 'The Time Machine' again. I haven't read it since high school.

@Riverstorm

In your thoughts everything is precisely as you perceive it. Hearing others perception is the fun and interesting part.

Well said also. I definitely agree.