Mame2003 vs 2010
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@adlorin said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
What is it, that makes Mame2010 run so slowly?
That would be seven years of improvements. The Mame project prides itself on accuracy and as it has matured, it has grown increasingly more accurate over time. However, accuracy of emulation comes at the cost of system resources, which the Raspberry Pi is in short supply of compared to the more robust boards found in full PCs. Since the Pi 2 and 3 are very roughly the equivalent to a 900Mhz Pentium 3 from 1999, running a Mame core closer to that time frame is just going to perform better.
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@mediamogul said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
@adlorin said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
What is it, that makes Mame2010 run so slowly?
That would be seven years of improvements. The Mame project prides itself on accuracy and as it has matured, it has grown increasingly more accurate over time. However, accuracy of emulation comes at the cost of system resources, which the Raspberry Pi is in short supply of compared to the more robust boards found in full PCs. Since the Pi 2 and 3 are very roughly the equivalent to a 900Mhz Pentium 3 from 1999, running a Mame core closer to that time frame is just going to perform better.
If the difference between the two, was that the xx10 version could simply run more files, then I could easily accept that; however, it slows everything down to unplayability. It feels like the over-head had increased to 'do more' whilst expensing substantial resources, that it didn't do prior.
Kind of a shame, really. If not for this, I feel that xx10 could be the one-size-fits-all MAME / Neo-Geo emulator. When a piece of software running on a device at 1.2GHz cannot properly emulate 66MHz hardware, 'improvement' over the previous core that could, it certainly isn't. I read a little more since my first post, and it seems that this version is beta, anyhow, which should account for terribly it runs. Hopefully that's remedied in the next code update. =)
Thanks!
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remember the raspberry pi (even the 3) is basically the worst pc you can buy. it would be the worst in 2010, even. we can't really blame mame devs for not wanting to target these devices :) but luckily we can focus on mame as it was when pi-level hardware was roughly the norm (ie mame2003)
I wouldn't hope for any improvements for 2010.
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@adlorin said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
'improvement' over the previous... it certainly isn't
It all depends on your metric for improvement. The Mame project aims for accuracy of emulated hardware in an attempt to document all possible hardware functions for historical purposes. The fact that the games are playable at all is really just a side-effect and not a primary goal.
Kind of a shame, really. If not for this, I feel that xx10 could be the one-size-fits-all MAME / Neo-Geo emulator.
With more powerful hardware to run it on, it is a perfect all-in-one solution. I coincidentally have a late 2010 version of Mame running on my personal arcade cabinet that I built in October of 2010 and there's really nothing it can't play from it's rom set.
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Totally agree with dankcushions here, whilst the Pi isnt great to run the latest versions of MAME, it is more than capable of doing an extremely good job running the forks from earlier versions. These result in a very good gaming experience.
You will often hear criticisms that the Pi isnt suitable to run MAME, and when discussing the latest version thats often true, but as a platform to play retro arcade games, I think it does a fantastic job. -
I have a feeling that Pi will be very well off once a MAME has been Pi-optimized to run later versions. Pi has an advantage because it is closer to the same hardware for everyone Vs. a ton of PC hardware configs. Pi3 isn't even done yet and then I am sure we will see rapid advances in hardware (RPi4, RPi5) to be more on par with Mame 2010.
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Hi ,i try with 2010 and games like world rally work perfect, its not the rule for all games, but this game dont work in 2003(romset 78) and advmame(romset 106), the same with fba next 38(the last revision) at the moment, i think really the highter versions needs more cpu and rpi is the low pc that exist that can run mame. Its near a miracle that this cheap pc can run these games, same can run attract mode.
For other side, i think if RetroPie offers the posibility of run olders and newers versions the people can play games that cant run in older versions and can have all to play a biggest number of games.
I think not is a Mame2003vs 2010, i think mame2003+2010= the winner combination
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@saitoh00 said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
i think mame2003+2010= the winner combination
Alongside FBA, I agree. The addition of the 'Arcade' folder was a big step forward to that idea. It allows a certain amount of flexibility to compensate for the limitations of any one arcade solution. It also highlights the other main advantage of a Pi aside from it's price and that is the imaginative and ingenious community that supports it.
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@mediamogul you're welcome ;)
Full disclosure jools is the genius and set up the framework, I just added the arcade configs to enable it :P
If you read the documentation it will answer 99% of your questions: https://retropie.org.uk/docs/
Also if you want a solution to your problems read this first: https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first
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I was actually talking about the Picrowave team, but you guys are great too.
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@mediamogul said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
@adlorin said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
'improvement' over the previous... it certainly isn't
It all depends on your metric for improvement. The Mame project aims for accuracy of emulated hardware in an attempt to document all possible hardware functions for historical purposes. The fact that the games are playable at all is really just a side-effect and not a primary goal.
If a given ROM runs well on 2003, but is then unplayably slow on 2010, it's exactly the opposite of improvement. If another given ROM runs the same on either version, or if it doesn't run on 2003, but does run slowly on 2010, nothing is 'improved' as no useful functionality has been gained. 2010 is a work in progress, I get that and am greatly appreciative of the work that people put into it; however, it's cannot yet rightfully be said to be an improvement over 2003.
Kind of a shame, really. If not for this, I feel that xx10 could be the one-size-fits-all MAME / Neo-Geo emulator.
With more powerful hardware to run it on, it is a perfect all-in-one solution. I coincidentally have a late 2010 version of Mame running on my personal arcade cabinet that I built in October of 2010 and there's really nothing it can't play from it's rom set.
Hardware isn't worth much discussion, IMHO. The PI 3's hardware is more than capable of running mid-90s arcade games, we just have yet to land a good piece of emulation software to properly handle it. The processors of Killer Instinct and some of the later 90s Capcom cabinets run about 25 MIPS, while the Pi 2 runs at 4,744 MIPS; that's nearly 190 times faster in regards to raw processor speed. Mid 90s processors were often CISC based, so you had x cycles per instruction - where as ARM processors are all RISC, so you're getting x instructions per cycle. Not to mention improvements in bus speed, caching, memory speed, and video capability; yet the best I can muster, is half-speed gameplay and stuttering audio.
Rather than piss and moan about it, it would be worth tracing through to attempt to find out what's making it run like dog shit. Is there an available C source for it? Is the version that's included in retropie just a standard Linux version, or are there any notable differences?
Thanks everyone, for listening to me whine. :)
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@adlorin speedhacks =! Accuracy
See this article:
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@adlorin said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
Rather than **** and moan about it, it would be worth tracing through to attempt to find out what's making it run like dog ****.
Good luck with that.
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@adlorin said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
it would be worth tracing through to attempt to find out what's making it run like dog...
Look, I've tried to steer you away, but you're getting too close. First, it's why Mame 2010 runs so slow. Next, you'll want to know about the secret council of seven and why RetroPie updates are only released during a blood moon. Some answers are just too big. Your private little crusade is going to get a lot of good cops killed.
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if you want perfomative arcade emulation, look to FBA. the romset is a lot smaller despite that project being about 16 years old because it turns out it is pretty hard to optimise mame drivers! :)
a faster mame2010 is not going to happen.
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I really enjoy lr-FBA-next. For those looking at RetroPi as some kind of modern gaming machine, they have the wrong expectations.
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@GreenHawk84 unless you run it on a linux pc which is also possible (I do)
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@GreenHawk84 said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
I really enjoy lr-FBA-next. For those looking at RetroPi as some kind of modern gaming machine, they have the wrong expectations.
I wouldn't consider adequate emulation of 66Mhz, mid-90s arcade games, as anything modern. =)
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@dankcushions said in Mame2003 vs 2010:
if you want perfomative arcade emulation, look to FBA. the romset is a lot smaller despite that project being about 16 years old because it turns out it is pretty hard to optimise mame drivers! :)
a faster mame2010 is not going to happen.
Everything that I tested on 2003 ran beautifully. FBA was able to sort-of-run Primal Rage, Killer Instinct, and Street Fighter EX - but it didn't so well, though it was better than 2010. =)
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@mediamogul would make be pointless if it couldn't play the games, playability surely it's part of accuracy
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