RE2 n64 problem on Rp4

lostless

@iga all in all, n64 emulation on the pi is so, so. The pi doesn't have the bandwidth to properly emulate most n64. Either you use a faster emulator that has graphic bugs or you get slowdown. Even most games slow down here and there. Either use a decent android box or pc if you want better n64 emulation.

lostless

This post is deleted!

retropieuser555

@iga Yeah Resident Evil 2 on the n64 was always one of those games the emulators seemed to have issues with throughout the years. I guess there's never been much appetite to fix the individual problems/build in hacks for that specific game given that the ps1 version works very well and is usually considered the superior version. Like the Donald Duck game, I'm not sure any n64 emulators play that well, I think project64 on a good PC will play it. But it's not a particularly great game so there's not much interest to fix it.

IGA

@retropieuser555 ok, pretty clear...

IGA

@lostless said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

@iga all in all, n64 emulation on the pi is so, so. The pi doesn't have the bandwidth to properly emulate most n64. Either you use a faster emulator that has graphic bugs or you get slowdown. Even most games slow down here and there. Either use a decent android box or pc if you want better n64 emulation.

Just a question - the issue really in raspberry or issue is retroarch?
There video

where we could see that man run stand alone version muppen64plus for android, and re2 worked pretty well on pi....
so....

lostless

@iga I will say the n64 emulators on retro pie are not the best supported or optimized. Any libretro emulator will have slightly more overhead then any stand alone emulator. The Android version may have less overhead or is better optimized. Maybe android on the pi has better graphics drivers. You have multiple things that can cause slowdowns between OSs, updates, and people dedicating optimizing for certain environments.

IGA

@lostless said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

You have multiple things that can cause slowdowns between OSs, updates, and people dedicating optimizing for certain environments.

Ок, well, in the end, can just give up on this case?

sirhenrythe5th

@lostless said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

@iga I will say the n64 emulators on retro pie are not the best supported or optimized. <

full ack!!!
I remember back in 1999..."Nemu 0.7" running Mario64 on a PentiumII @400Mhz.
And this much better than Mupen on a Pi.
I thought that at least Mario64 and MarioKart64 on Pi-Mupen should run perfect, as these two games run well since N64-Emulation started on PCs over 20 years ago with UltraHLE, Daedalus and other forgotten projects.
Nope!, compared to my N64-Everdrive-Setup it was horrible! Stuttering, sound cut-offs, unstable framerate, missing gfx,....no, not a good emulation.
Maybe sometime there will be an alternative to Mupen for the Pi.
I am sure there are better emulators that would be worth to be converted to an libretro-port.

dankcushions

@lostless said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

@iga I will say the n64 emulators on retro pie are not the best supported or optimized.

i disagree. lr-mupen64plus-next and mupen64plus are actively developed and contain the current version of the only actively developed HLE graphics plugin. the pi is weak, that's all.

dankcushions

@sirhenrythe5th said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

@lostless said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

@iga I will say the n64 emulators on retro pie are not the best supported or optimized. <

full ack!!!
I remember back in 1999..."Nemu 0.7" running Mario64 on a PentiumII @400Mhz.
And this much better than Mupen on a Pi.

it's much, much worse. it's hacky, featureless emulation that barely worked for a handful of games. i implore you to follow gliden64 (the only HLE plugin in development) where you can observe the massive challenges involved in accurately rendering n64 graphics.

I thought that at least Mario64 and MarioKart64 on Pi-Mupen should run perfect, as these two games run well since N64-Emulation started on PCs over 20 years ago with UltraHLE, Daedalus and other forgotten projects.
Nope!, compared to my N64-Everdrive-Setup it was horrible! Stuttering, sound cut-offs, unstable framerate, missing gfx,....no, not a good emulation.

no missing graphics for me on mupen64plus-gliden64. ultra HLE is an interesting one as it leveraged the similar technology in 3dfx chipsets to effectively natively render n64 graphics. see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UltraHLE - you couldn't do that on modern GPUs, and in any case it was inaccurate and not very compatible.

sirhenrythe5th

@dankcushions said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

it's much, much worse. it's hacky, featureless emulation that barely worked for a handful of games. <<

Sure, in fact i only played "Mario64" with "Nemu", all other games were not playable. But at least Mario64 run good enough to call it playable.
And, Hey!, we were pretty impressed :)
We are talking about the late 90s and a Win98SE-System with a 400MHz CPU.
How would MUPEN perform on a ficitonal 400MHz Raspberry Pi when even a Pi3 was not strong enough?

I used NEMU until "Project64" came out.
Until 2007 i only used that one for N64 Emulation.
I was satisfied with it, but as several games (U-Codes) were red (unplayable) for eternity i use the real hardware again.
Of course the best solution - for every system.

But at least in my memories the performance with Project64 (on a Athlon FX-55 WinXP-Setup) was much better than Mupen on the Pi.
However: why is Mupen such a holy Cow on the Pi?
Of course i compare to my experiences on the real N64, and i see differences indeed.
Is there absolutly no interest in other N64-Emulators?
Of course it is said IMO: but i dont see that Mupen is the best N64-Emulator of all time and there will never be something better :/

dankcushions

@sirhenrythe5th said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

@dankcushions said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

it's much, much worse. it's hacky, featureless emulation that barely worked for a handful of games. <<

Sure, in fact i only played "Mario64" with "Nemu", all other games were not playable. But at least Mario64 run good enough to call it playable.
And, Hey!, we were pretty impressed :)
We are talking about the late 90s and a Win98SE-System with a 400MHz CPU.
How would MUPEN perform on a ficitonal 400MHz Raspberry Pi when even a Pi3 was not strong enough?

400MHz pentium II is stronger than a Pi 1, so it's not really a fair test, and given that these older emulators were specifically developed for a single CPU architecture, handled a handful of curated games, and so on, it's pointless. nemu was an emulator for its time - it does not hold up, just like zsnes, etc.

that said, you can run mario 64 at full speed at native resolution on a pi3, last time i checked. use mupen64plus-gles264 (an obsolete, buggy plugin, but still). mario kart also performs great on the same. both of those games have been great for me on pi4 with GLideN64. completed both.

I used NEMU until "Project64" came out.
Until 2007 i only used that one for N64 Emulation.
I was satisfied with it, but as several games (U-Codes) were red (unplayable) for eternity i use the real hardware again.

i'm not aware of any games of note that are still unplayable on a modest x86 system via mupen64plus, especially considering angrylion/parallel.

But at least in my memories the performance with Project64 (on a Athlon FX-55 WinXP-Setup) was much better than Mupen on the Pi.

that system would be several factors more powerful than a pi4!

Is there absolutly no interest in other N64-Emulators?
Of course it is said IMO: but i dont see that Mupen is the best N64-Emulator of all time and there will never be something better :/

both project64 and mupen64plus have access to the same GLideN64 (HLE) and angrylion (LLE) graphics plugins, and beyond that the only real difference is CPU dynarec and I/O stuff, and UI, etc. i don't understand what differences you would expect to see with other emulators - barely anything separates them if you're not using their GUIs. project64 doens't have an ARM dynarec (not sure it supports ARM at all) so it's a non-starter.

sirhenrythe5th

@dankcushions
ok, i left the N64-Emulation Scene as mentioned in 2007.
Up to this date several games were not running on Project64.
Mostly with the message "U-Codes. Not supported".
Maybe all these Games run now.
I.e. "Densha de Go 64" was one of the games, i never got running.
But in the end i may be the only european interested in this game-series from TAITO :D

In the past there were new projects coming up every here and than.
I suppose these days are over now? Only known projects are getting forward, but no new ones?
OK, than it has to be MUPEN, i understand.

All i wanted to say ist that, for my feeling!, Mario64 and MarioKart64 (the only two i tested) did run so different than on real hardware, that i did not keep Mupen_next.
It is not the speed, i cannot describe it in english, in german you would say the emulation was "holprig", not the way it should be.
I admit: i did not change anything in the configuration or used other plug-ins than the pre-installed ones - everything on default.
Maybe this also caused the mess.

retropieuser555

@sirhenrythe5th the thing is, the N64 scene was always a big mess, it's a very unusual console under the hood. I can see why some coders have taken to making source code decompilations of the games now over working on an emulator. It's probably the best approach for getting those games working on lesser hardware. Emulation beyond the 16bit era has always been patchy anyway imo. But even looking at snes9x it employs alot of hacks to get around certain errors or glitches.

IGA

@dankcushions said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

i disagree. lr-mupen64plus-next and mupen64plus are actively developed and contain the current version of the only actively developed HLE graphics plugin. the pi is weak, that's all.

So, the best way to "try to play" n64 games on pi4 is use lr-mupen64plus-next core + overclocking ? ( I am not about graphical issue in RE2. about games at all)
or is it also meaningless in most cases? and extremely stupid

or install android on pi...?

dankcushions

@iga does android matter? it’s the same emulators and plugins. i wonder what graphics stack is used, though?

personally i stick to stand-alone and don’t overclock.

IGA

@dankcushions said in RE2 n64 problem on Rp4:

does android matter? it’s the same emulators and plugins

As we saw at the video above, there are re2 run without graphical issues...

There are stand-alone version of mupen for retropie (not a core)?
Where?