lr-mame2003 aspect ratio

[dankcushions]

@mediamogul

I take it that this would not be an isolated situation and that similar AR issues in other games can be tracked back to this problem?

i think aspect ratios are definitely a bit weird and wonderful so you never know :) however i think the CPS2 games will all exhibit this problem with mame2003. personally, i sort of like pretending it isn't really a problem and letting them fill up my HDTV :)

[mediamogul]

@dankcushions

I can't say I blame you. It can end up being a lot of extra work. However, it's great that we have the option to to choose our approach to these things. Like a wise composer once wrote, "Well, the world don't move to the beat of just one drum". I think we can all learn a lesson from that. Along with the lesson that you shouldn't spend much time in a bicycle shop owned by Gordon Jump.

[jretropie]

@dankcushions Thanks! per game cfg works great for me.

[Floob]

Just for reference, these should be the aspect ratios for retroarch configs

0: 4:3
1: 16:9
2: 16:10
3: 16:15
4: 1:1
5: 2:1
6: 3:2
7: 3:4
8: 4:1
9: 4:4
10: 5:4
11: 6:5
12: 7:9
13: 8:3
14: 8:7
15: 19:12
16: 19:14
17: 30:17
18: 32:9
19: config (video_aspect_ratio setting)
20: 10:9 (1:1 PAR)
21: Core Provided
22: Custom

Some info here from when I was trying to get my head around it
http://smartretro.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52

[Riverstorm]

@Floob said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

Just for reference, these should be the aspect ratios for retroarch configs

0: 4:3
1: 16:9
2: 16:10
3: 16:15
4: 1:1
5: 2:1
6: 3:2
7: 3:4
8: 4:1
9: 4:4
10: 5:4
11: 6:5
12: 7:9
13: 8:3
14: 8:7
15: 19:12
16: 19:14
17: 30:17
18: 32:9
19: config (video_aspect_ratio setting)
20: 10:9 (1:1 PAR)
21: Core Provided
22: Custom

Some info here from when I was trying to get my head around it
http://smartretro.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=52

If you use video_scale_integer = true does it effect using aspect_ratio_index = "0". It seems like those two options wouldn't work together but maybe they do?

[dankcushions]

@Riverstorm sure they work together. it just fits the biggest 4:3 whole number it can in your available screen resolution.

[Riverstorm]

@dankcushions said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

@Riverstorm sure they work together. it just fits the biggest 4:3 whole number it can in your available screen resolution.

Ok, that makes sense, kind of. If you use aspect_ratio_index = "0" wouldn't that utilize the biggest 4:3 ratio in your available resolution and then video_scale_integer = true would be kind of redundant or not needed? I think I am missing the "synergy" between the two.

[dankcushions]

@Riverstorm said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

@dankcushions said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

@Riverstorm sure they work together. it just fits the biggest 4:3 whole number it can in your available screen resolution.

Ok, that makes sense, kind of. If you use aspect_ratio_index = "0" wouldn't that utilize the biggest 4:3 ratio in your available resolution and then video_scale_integer = true would be kind of redundant or not needed? I think I am missing the "synergy" between the two.

yeah, you're missing it :) integer_scaling forces resolutions to scale with whole numbers. that's the whole point of it - no scaling artefacts. that's why you end up with black borders often on the top/bottom, as it can't get a whole number scaling to fit into your exact resolution. you turn that off and it will just scale the image to fit to the top of the screen on the vertical, and as per the 4:3 ratio on the horizontal.

[Riverstorm]

@dankcushions said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

yeah, you're missing it :)

Bare with me Dank! Let me try a example to understand.

Example monitor resolution is 1920x1080.

If I apply aspect_ratio_index = "0"
A 1920 x 1080 resolution monitor at a 4:3 ratio would be 1440x1080 with black borders.

If I apply video_scale_integer = true
A 1920 x 1080 resolution monitor and a game at 320x240 will scale 4x up to 1280x960 with black borders.

With both on will it be 1280x960 image because it applied video_scale_integer to the 1440x1080 aspect ratio? Does one get applied before the other? Does that make sense or am I still missing the train?

[dankcushions]

@Riverstorm said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

@dankcushions said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

yeah, you're missing it :)

Bare with me Dank! Let me try a example to understand.

Example monitor resolution is 1920x1080.

If I apply aspect_ratio_index = "0"
A 1920 x 1080 resolution monitor at a 4:3 ratio would be 1440x1080 with black borders.

If I apply video_scale_integer = true
A 1920 x 1080 resolution monitor and a game at 320x240 will scale 4x up to 1280x960 with black borders.

With both on will it be 1280x960 image because it applied video_scale_integer to the 1440x1080 aspect ratio? Does one get applied before the other? Does that make sense or am I still missing the train?

it just goes up in integers until it runs out of space:
1x integer scale = 320x240 (fits into 1920x1080)
2x integer scale = 640x480 (fits into 1920x1080)
3x integer scale = 960x720 (fits into 1920x1080)
4x integer scale = 1280x960 (fits into 1920x1080)
5x integer scale = 1600x1200 (DOES NOT fit into 1920x1080 - 1200>1080)

so 4x integer scale with borders is the best it can do with integer scaling 4:3 on a 320x240 source.

[Riverstorm]

@dankcushions said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

it just goes up in integers until it runs out of space:
1x integer scale = 320x240 (fits into 1920x1080)
2x integer scale = 640x480 (fits into 1920x1080)
3x integer scale = 960x720 (fits into 1920x1080)
4x integer scale = 1280x960 (fits into 1920x1080)
5x integer scale = 1600x1200 (DOES NOT fit into 1920x1080 - 1200>1080)

so 4x integer scale with borders is the best it can do with integer scaling 4:3 on a 320x240 source.

Ok, that makes sense. One more question, I should say answer! ;) I guess I didn't realize that 320x240 is already a 4:3 ratio. So in that case it would not matter which is applied first (video_scale_integer or aspect_ratio_index) because for a 320x240 game it is always going to be 1280x960 on a 1920x1080 monitor. Do all games work or at least a majority work out so nicely?

Does aspect_ratio_index scale to a perfect 4:3 at the largest possible resolution of the monitor while maintaining 4:3 or do you need video_scale_integer to scale it larger since technically 320x240 is already 4:3! :)

I don't know why but for some reason I can't quite put my finger on it but it seems it should make a difference if one or the other is on or if both it would change things but maybe it does not.

[dankcushions]

@Riverstorm I'm really struggling to work out your question but as with most of these things you have all the hardware available to you to find out the answers yourself ;)

[caver01]

@Riverstorm I think I see where you are coming from. Consider a game like Street Fighter II (384x224 I think). This game does not have a 4:3 pixel dimension (it's 12:7) so to fill an old arcade CRT, it was expected that you would adjust the timing on the display to STRETCH the pixels taller. To scale on a modern 4:3 screen, the vertical multiplier would have to be different than the horizontal. In this case, it would seem like 4:3 and Integer_Scaling are incompatible.

The way around this is to consider the pixels to be NON SQUARE, so that you CAN use an integer in both dimensions--just that the pixels are elongated to begin with. Pixel Aspect Ratio is not 1:1 in this case.

To @dankcushions point, it would be an interesting thing to test in practice. I use FBA for street fighter, but I am curious what would happen if I set it up in MAME with integer scaling and 4:3 aspect ratio.

[Riverstorm]

@caver01 said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

@Riverstorm I think I see where you are coming from. Consider a game like Street Fighter II (384x224 I think). This game does not have a 4:3 pixel dimension (it's 12:7) so to fill an old arcade CRT, it was expected that you would adjust the timing on the display to STRETCH the pixels taller. To scale on a modern 4:3 screen, the vertical multiplier would have to be different than the horizontal. In this case, it would seem like 4:3 and Integer_Scaling are incompatible.

The way around this is to consider the pixels to be NON SQUARE, so that you CAN use an integer in both dimensions--just that the pixels are elongated to begin with. Pixel Aspect Ratio is not 1:1 in this case.

To @dankcushions point, it would be an interesting thing to test in practice. I use FBA for street fighter, but I am curious what would happen if I set it up in MAME with integer scaling and 4:3 aspect ratio.

Thanks Caver, I think you understand it but I might have to digress. I read it several times to try and put the pieces together but it's clear there are several aspects I don't fully understand. I think another layer of math is thrown in there to calculate non 1:1 aspect ratios but it seems you would almost need to have the pixel height or width to calculate the other "axis" correctly to compensate a non-square pixel. There's way more complexity that I would have originally thought.

I was shooting for a "blanket" setting to start and be more granular from there but it's like each game has it's own caveats.

Is there a website that has the information of pixel dimensions or aspect ratios of Arcade/MAME games by chance? I think that would be helpful when trying to adjust settings for a game that might look a bit off.

[dankcushions]

@Riverstorm said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

I was shooting for a "blanket" setting to start and be more granular from there but it's like each game has it's own caveats.

the blanket setting is to not mess with the aspect ratio and let the core do its job :) CPS2 games on mame2003 are only an issue because of a very specific bug on that core. usually, you shouldn't touch the aspect ratio.

[Riverstorm]

@dankcushions said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

@Riverstorm said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

I was shooting for a "blanket" setting to start and be more granular from there but it's like each game has it's own caveats.

the blanket setting is to not mess with the aspect ratio and let the core do its job :) CPS2 games on mame2003 are only an issue because of a very specific bug on that core. usually, you shouldn't touch the aspect ratio.

I hear ya Dank! :) The issue I am seeing is when I run lr-imame4all it's cutting off the top and bottom of Donkey Kong if I turn off video_scale_integer, the sides are good. Also ES is cutting things off too. So I thought I would use the overscan options in the /boot/config.txt to adjust everything as a whole. What happens is the RetroPie logo screen at boot is adjusting but it doesn't seems to adjust ES at all.

I did a setting of 100 (for testing) and of course the RetroPie logo gained black borders nicely but ES still had "Start" pushed off to the left bottom corner of the screen.

I was thinking I could use the overscan settings to adjust the view as a whole but I am still missing some setting or something in lr-imame4all as in my example Donkey Cuts part of the score off the top and the credits on the bottom.

[dankcushions]

@Riverstorm hmm, you must have something wrong with your overscan config as that exact case is what it's for. if ES has sections cut off then your overscan is wrong and will certainly be the cause of your DK issue. off topic, though...

[mediamogul]

@Riverstorm said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

So I thought I would use the overscan options in the /boot/config.txt to adjust everything as a whole. What happens is the RetroPie logo screen at boot is adjusting but it doesn't seems to adjust ES at all.

I ran into this same problem and found that you have to add the following line to "/boot/config.txt" before Emulation Station will fall in line....

overscan_scale=1

Also, I don't know if you have tried it yet, but I also had to uncomment the individual directional overscan settings in there as well to fully conform to my television.

[Riverstorm]

@mediamogul said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

@Riverstorm said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

So I thought I would use the overscan options in the /boot/config.txt to adjust everything as a whole. What happens is the RetroPie logo screen at boot is adjusting but it doesn't seems to adjust ES at all.

I ran into this same problem and found that you have to add the following line to "/boot/config.txt" before Emulation Station will fall in line....

overscan_scale=1

Also, I don't know if you have tried it yet, but I also had to uncomment the individual directional overscan settings in there as well to fully conform to my television.

Thanks Media, I will give this a try. I did uncomment each overscan setting but looking at config.txt I don't see overscan_scale=1. If that option is needed to enable the overscan_left, right, etc. Hopefully they add that in with a little comment for the future. It sure would make it a bit more handy! :)

[Riverstorm]

@dankcushions said in lr-mame2003 aspect ratio:

@Riverstorm hmm, you must have something wrong with your overscan config as that exact case is what it's for. if ES has sections cut off then your overscan is wrong and will certainly be the cause of your DK issue. off topic, though...

Thanks Dank and sorry for being off-topic...back on-topic! ;)