Apple ii Keyboard setup

edmaul69

@briandamico f keys are used for emulator stuff. As far as exiting, instead of f10 you could open the dosbox config file and set an exit function to a controller. Now games dont neccessarily use enter and spacebar. They use letters all the time. I am going to check out alf and see what happens. Which emulator are you using?

caver01

@briandamico You did fine. Your post caught my eye because I have been playing with key mapping for Apple II emulation in AdvanceMESS, and when I read you were using an Apple II keyboard I had to read more, since the Apple II had their keyboards built right into the computer chassis.

Anyway, if you are emulating an Apple II, the early models couldn't even do lowercase characters and certainly not F-keys, although the late model IIe had a numeric keypad. The F-keys can come in handy to access emulator functions.

briandamico

@edmaul69 I thought there was only one emulator for apple ii linapple

I guess my biggest concern is being able to use one keyboard for everything and obviously exiting a game back to the game list to change games or disks and obviously I need a lesson in what keys do what for most games.

@caver01 so would you recommend I get a apple keyboard extended ii then? I'm happy to do it if thats what will be best for me unless I can absolutely get by with the one I got?

caver01

@briandamico said in Apple ii Keyboard setup:

@caver01 so would you recommend I get a apple keyboard extended ii then? I'm happy to do it if thats what will be best for me unless I can absolutely get by with the one I got?

No, not at all. My point was that if your goal is Apple II emulation, you don't need the extra keys for that system. Getting your setup configured, however, you might want access to F-keys, scroll lock, etc. to access emulator functions--but you may only need do that during setup. You could use an additional external keyboard to help you configure.

Ultimately, it just depends on what YOU want. Case in point: I am running Apple II games on an arcade cabinet I built with NO KEYBOARD attached. Now, to configure the games on first-run, I need a keyboard to map my joystick and buttons appropriately, but my goal was to be able to play the games with the arcade hardware. So you see, everyone has a different take on the best components to use.

edmaul69

@caver01 so alf was a bad choice to test. When it starts, have to wait until scrolling stops. Then it asks if you want instructions y/n. If you choose n it goes to the game. If you choose y it goes through a bunch of blabbing and you keep having to hit a button to keep scrolling then eventually it tells you the controls and you can start the game then too. So choose no. Alf requires a joystick. Unlike many games that let you use the keyboard. Alf controls are this:

Joystick controls alf
Button 0 gets alf
Esc pause the game
Ctrl + r pauses the game

If you are using linapple you probably want to change the

default values are 2 for Joystick 0, and 0 for Joystick 1
Joystick 0 = 2
Joystick 1 = 0

To:

Joystick 0 = 1
Joystick 1 = 0

Also in linapple if you enable joystick 1 your first player can only use button 0 and not button 1. So in games like lode runner you cant use both joystick buttons making the game pretty unplayable when using a joystick. However some games let you use the keyboard, some dont.

briandamico

@caver01 I understand what your saying

ok so I at least need a keyboard with f1 keys to get set up.
ill see what I can find if not get an apple extended with the f keys

but when I have all this ready to go. what would be my next steps then to set up properly.

edmaul69

@briandamico read my last post.

briandamico

@edmaul69 haha I see I just missed your response.

ok so you say joystick is for this. but could this be mapped to be used on a keyboard?
using arrow keys?

pac man is a pefect example of a joystick game that can be sued with d pad arrows.

and changing these values, what do they do, and where do u change them?

edmaul69

@briandamico in linapple i have no clue. I use an apple iie joystick. If the game doesnt support the keyboard for controls. Most games give you an option to choose either a keyboard or a joystick. So i would test other games you actually want to play. There are multiple versions of some games and the controls can be different so test every version of that game to find one that works for you. You can also google the instructions for apple ii games and read the apple versions manual for controls. Sometimes if you look up a pic of the floppy disk, the instructions are on the label of the disk

caver01

@briandamico said in Apple ii Keyboard setup:

@caver01 I understand what your saying

ok so I at least need a keyboard with f1 keys to get set up.

If you say so--it probably depends on the emulator you plan to use. I never use F-keys in AdvanceMESS, but I think Linapple will be easier if you have them.

but when I have all this ready to go. what would be my next steps then to set up properly.

Again, depends on emulator. For linapple, I think there is a config file for setting the keys, but I don't use it. Check the docs. If you want to try AdvanceMESS, you can maybe follow along with what I did in this post, but I was basically trailblazing there, making up my configuration as I went along. Of all of the possible ways to get Apple II emulation running, MESS is tricky.

edmaul69

@briandamico i should note that the arrow keys werent commonly used for direction in games. The used letters in a pyramid pattern. Some games have versions listed as "modified keys"

caver01

@edmaul69 said in Apple ii Keyboard setup:

@briandamico i should note that the arrow keys werent commonly used for direction in games. The used letters in a pyramid pattern

Yeah, and many used a combo: A, Z for up/down, and LEFT RIGHT arrows for left and right. Spacebar often was jump, shoot, etc. Also, ESC often paused the game.

Apple Panic for instance used IJKM for directions, and others use IJKL which is more like the WASD used in a lot of FPS games today.

I didn't realize linapple had two-button joystick limitations. One nice thing about MESS is that it lets you map keys to the analog joystick inputs.

edmaul69

@caver01 yeah lode runner lets you use the closed apple key as button 1 if you have it set up as 2 seperate player joysticks. technically only having 1 joystick is apple ii/iie correct. In games like mario bros had you both use a paddle and a button, but technically that is 1 controller. Linapple just made it so you can have 2 seperate controllers. So games that used a 4 way joystick that are 2 player games actually have the player 2 use the keyboard on an apple ii/iie.

caver01

@edmaul69 Interesting. I have two joysticks on my actual IIe. IIR one of them plugs in with a DIP connector on a ribbon cable through a slot and onto the MoBo and the other is maybe a 9-pin DIN. . . Are you saying Linapple has problems emulating two joysticks with two buttons each and that you have to make some compromise?

Now that I think about it, I know several examples where two players could use the two joysticks at the same time, but I don't know if both buttons get used. One-on-One (Dr.J, L.Bird) could be played with two joysticks, but I think you use the same button to spin, hold to jump, and release to shoot. Interesting.

edmaul69

@caver01 so thinking of it, i think you are right about two joysticks. And yes i believe that it disables one of the buttons. So i think what linapple does when you choose two joysticks is correct. However, i think most games didnt have that option. Do you have an apple ii, ii plus, iie or iigs?

caver01

@edmaul69 I have a //e, rev.b. My dad bought it right when they came out with double-high res graphics. I remember bringing it home and finding out we had an earlier revision, and he was like, wait, they told us it would be a rev.b! I think we marched it back to the shop and demanded a replacement. So, for an hour, we had a Rev A board.

Anyway, I have fond memories of Dazzle Draw, but beyond that, I don't remember anything that I had that took advantage of the additional colors and resolution. It's a great machine though and it still works!

caver01

@caver01 I remember a couple years later, still enjoying the //e standing in the shop looking at a brand new Macintosh 512k and asking the sales guy, "Why in the WORLD anyone would need 512k of RAM?" He shrugged and said, "Apparently, there is software that can actually use it!". Later, we bought a Mac+, upgraded it to an 020 and added a Radius Full-Page Display and 4mb of RAM (at $100/mb).

caver01

@caver01 I wish I could lay my hands on that mac+ keyboard now and transform it into a modern USB mech keyboard to blow my friends' minds (or just piss off my wife).

briandamico

@caver01 I love hearing stories like that! just stories like that about old Apples are the best. no one ever has stories like that for an IBM lol...
This is exactly why I want to be able to play a few games on the pie with an apple keyboard . to make it like it was. just for a little bit.

so if I need a joystick for some/most games, what would be the best option for that. is there anything that hooks up via to the keyboard? or does it have to be usb? or back to what I was hoping, changing values to use the keyboard

caver01

@briandamico Oh man, You have a lot of options, but my experience with this is limited to digital (switch-based arcade hardware) which is easy to wire up to GPIO pins and use a GPIO driver for that, or a USB keyboard controller (like IPAC). I think you should just take a tour through the controllers section of the wiki.

@edmaul69 maybe has suggestions, as he's actually using his Apple II shell/keyboard. What do you use for a joystick?