Raspberry Pi 3 - Idle/Load temperatures while running Retropie?

[wolfgangrumpf]

For what it's worth, I have the same basic setup as OP described (RPI3 Canakit with thermal tape holding on heat sinks). My temperatures were getting VERY high (75 - 80C!) in the miniature NES case I printed up for it, so I went ahead and installed a fan at the bottom of the case that blows up directly onto the heat sinks - now my temperatures rarely exceed 55C. The fan makes a bit of noise but not enough to be distracting in a quiet room, really.....

[Capeman]

The pi isnt designed to need a heat sink. If you look at a typical X-86/64 processor versus an ARM processor, you'll notice the material housing the processor on an X-86 is metal and really smooth - that design is intentional - the metal cap conducts heat to the surface which transfers to thermal compound then to the heat sink which is then blown away by a fan.

An AMR processor you'll notice is the same material as a standard IC, its plastic capped with a textured surface and printed markings. The textured plastic is terrible for heat sinks. Tape will leave microscopic air bubbles between the plastic and the tape, air is the best insulator. The last thing you want between a CPU and a heat sink is any layer of insulation. Only a really squishy tape OR thermal compound will have any sort of effect if well worked in... but because of the basic material housing of the ARM processor, it is not designed to be heat sinked.

If the pi was meant to have a heat sink, the foundation would have included one or at least put a mounting solution in for one.

[caver01]

@capeman I agree with this to a point. The assessment of the materials, the texture-induced air pockets, and most importantly, the failur of “tape” to properly conduct heat are all important points. I think the take-home is that if you are serious about getting the most out of a sink, you should be using a thermal compound, not self-adheasive tape to apply it.

Yet, once applied properly, even a sink without a fan can do wonders. As for the Pi Foundation not intending us to use a heat sink–this is true, but only because they have the throttling mechanism built-in. If we simply allow throttling, sure, no need to ever install a heat sink. But most of us want to push the heat envelope and maximize performance.

One of the problems with all of the anecdotes about only getting 5 degrees of effective heat reduction without a fan etc. is that most of us are using different solutions. We have different heat sinks, different application methods, different cases, and so on. It’s apples and oranges in many cases. Still, what we do know is that there are paths to success. Some use fans. Some don’t. I don’t, but I have a good sink with Arctic Silver. The details really matter.

[Capeman]

Given the negligible differences in degrees with and without a heat sinks that most people report, id really like to see somebody test a heat sink on the ARM versus just pointing a fan directly at the ARM with no heat sink to see if simply moving air across the bare board would reduce heat in a similar way. I'm almost willing to bet that it will.

Since most people get those cheap sinks with tape backers, I'm almost sure only about 1 in 10 people are applying these things in a way that would be useful (meaning thermal compound and pressure with a fan)... because simply sticking these things on with the included tape is more likely to actually raise temps versus helping lower them. But they definitely look cool haha

[caver01]

@capeman I absolutely agree. The test you suggest would be interesting. I’d like to see someone do the test you describe, try a heatsink using the included tape, then try again with thermal compound. It is the combinations of all of these options that is giving everyone a different result I imagine, on top of the fact that we all have different interests, so the tests are not even the same. Where I might show performance throttling in Golden Tee (arcade) someone else is testing with PSX.

[Capeman]

@caver01 my guess is that the properly seated sink with thermal compound and a fan would definitely perform the best, next would be the bare board with a fan blowing on it. I guess that the cheapo tiny sinks with tape or adhesive backing would actually raise heat in most cases, most of those seem pretty cheaply made and appear to be more for style than anything else.

[Hex]

There is active development going on to address this issue.

https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/11304/testers-needed-power-saver-features-pr-172

[Capeman]

@hex Very interesting thread and awesome progress! I must agree that nobody reads those stupid descriptions and it's casualty worth sacrificing, i use a batch method to create gamelists that don't even include it.

[steptoe]

I used thermal heatsink glue, basically heatsink paste with epoxy already mixed in. Left overnight the heatsink is solid

I bought a big heatsink of eBay and cut it down to just fit over the main CPU leaving a little bit over overhand and also mounted a very small fan on top (superglued on but it did the job). Also the memory chip undernaeth is mounted on a heatsink as I'm led to belive that can get pretty hot when overclocking

These are the settings I used with an RPI3 :

#Overclock Settings
arm_freq=1350
over_voltage=6
sdram_freq=500
temp_limit=80
core_freq=500

disable_splash=1
force_turbo=1
boot_delay=1

#GPU Based
h264_freq=333
avoid_pwm_pll=1
gpu_mem=450
v3d_freq=525
gpu_freq=400

#Ram Overclock
sdram_freq=575
sdram_schmoo=0x02000020
over_voltage_sdram_p=6
over_voltage_sdram_i=4
over_voltage_sdram_c=4

Temperatures barely move over 45c regardless what heavy stress tests I used and left for a good 20-30 minutes testing it to the limits. With the fan off it climbs to about 10-15c more so the fan does make a difference. Its not in a case though as its mounted inside my desktop arcade cabinet

Maybe once I build a media player/KODI mounted in a case attacged to the back of our TV on a mount I might have to think differently

[dankcushions]

i used a heatsink with the included 'crappy tape', and it improved temps for me. i'm sure they're not as effective as a proper thermal adhesive, but i think there's some hyperbole about how they increase temps :) i think if it was this total thermal insulator, they'd wrap the space shuttle's hull with the stuff!

i remember back in the early 2000s when i was deep in the desktop PC overclocking community, we'd hear about people putting heatsinks on without removing the plastic backing of the tape, or applying a tablespoon of arctic silver all over their CPU, or not applying anything at all! so i treat anecdotes about this stuff with a pinch of salt...

[DodgeDeBoulet]

So ... a rank newbie here. Howdy :)

I've done a bit of research on the thermal tape issue and it's important to note that there are at least two distinct types of thermal tape. The first is the kind that continues to adhere well at high temperatures but makes no attempt to transfer heat through the tape itself; the other is usually referred to as "thermal transfer tape" and is specifically designed for heatsink use. Many of the heatsink suppliers on eBay and other popular "modding" websites use the former and refer to it simply as "thermal tape." It's important to make sure that the tape used is thermally conductive, like 3M 8805.

FYI, I'm running my RPi 3B without a heatsink, in a fan-equipped enclosure. It's extremely quiet, and idle temperatures with ES running are 49C. Ambient room temperature is 25C. I'll have to set something up to monitor temps while I'm actually running some games, though.

Ok, so a couple of temps ... Sonic the Hedgehog via picodrive at 53C, Super Mario 64 via mupen64plus-gles2rice at 58C. Temps rose quickly at first, then leveled out and stayed fairly constant.

[tekn0]

I use this case now, it solves all of my overheating issues. It's fanless and inexpensive. https://nostalgiatechs.com/heatsync-case-pi-amazon

[caver01]

Interestingly, while shutting down my system last night I noticed the high temp icon for the first time in over a year. Why? It was idling in Emulation Station on a theme that was playing a thumbnail video. This is something to keep in mind I guess–that the video playback may be more taxing on the CPU than playing a game. It was in my case, at least with the emu-movie it was playing (I don’t remember which arcade ROM I had highlighted).

[pjft]

@caver01 VLC or OMX Player?

VLC used to always lead me to the temperature icon after a while, which was one of the main drivers for me to push for alternatives, and so @fieldofcows put together a working prototype with OMX Player which solved that.

[caver01]

@pjft I guess I don’t know. I am familiar with both, but this was a result of the theme I am using. I am standing on the shoulders of giants here, benefiting from all of the fantastic work of @TMNTturtlguy and others, as I am using the 4:3 version of the Comics theme.

[TMNTturtlguy]

@caver01 Are you suggesting that you think the ComicBook Theme is causing your system to overheat? I do not think that that is possible! The theme and the video player are 2 separate things. Can you check what your video settings are set to in the start menu and report back.

Thanks

[caver01]

@tmntturtlguy All I am saying is that I wasn’t playing a video, but looking at the Arcade ROM list using your awesome theme while a thumbnail video was looping. I haven’t see the overheat icon for a year. As I shut down, I noticed the icon, but I wasn’t even in an emulator. It was just on the Arcade list, playing a small emu movie. I have been singing the praises of how a properly attached heat sink has worked so well on my Pi3 and thought it was relevant to mention an observational change in behavior.

Perhaps I should verify a few things before we jump to conclusions (sorry for the potential false alarm). When I get home later, I will open up the cabinet and inspect the sink, first and foremost. Heck, maybe it slid off! Then, I’ll play some Joust and let it sit a while at the emulator list and see what happens.

Start menu. . . Is this the options that come up when I press Player1 Start? I guess that would make sense. I will check and report back.

[TMNTturtlguy]

@caver01 Yes, the start menu is when you press player 1 start button. Depending on when you last updated ES, there is a video player option. Setting it to OMX player will increase the performance of the thumbnail video playback and reduce overheating. It is a well known and well documented issue that letting a video preview - your thumbnail video while in the game list view leads to overheating if the system is left to sit there looping the thumbnail while using the VLC player. OMX player fixes this issue. This issue occurs no matter what theme you use.

Another way to fix this is to be sure you have a screensaver set to either black or to random video. This will kill the thumbnail video looping and reduce temperatures. I would start with this before opening up your arcade cabinet. I am guessing haven't let your system just sit on a video thumbnail and let it loop very many times in the past, so this issue would not have been noticeable.

[pjft]

@caver01 you're likely in VLC if that's what you were doing.

Press Start and then go to... Other settings, I believe.

Enable OMX Player. Then you can pretty much leave it on on any video without any fear of overheating. Hopefully. :)

[caver01]

@tmntturtlguy @pjft Thanks! I am just starting to enjoy a few of the latest ES enhancements and obviously all of the gorgeous work on the updated themes. I know I haven’t touched any video settings at all, so I will take a look at that. It’s really an exciting time to be tinkering with RetroPie.