Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem

caver01

@udb23 I appreciate your second run at this. You’ve done more with the art files than I ever have, especially trying to add your overlays.

I am going to watch what happens here—I would help but my setup is so different, we would have different goals. I need the art file working in rotated mode (vertically oriented display). In any case, having artwork flexibility in AdvanceMAME is good for everyone, so I have my fingers crossed!

UDb23

@caver01 Sure. Apart finding out how to set 1080p and backdrops, the idea is to clearly understand the logic and how the options in the .rc work. I could then create a general mini guide on how to create overlays for advmame and how the different setting impact the actual display. Like you did for vectors ;-)

UDb23

Just found this on another forum:

Add the following line to /home/pi/.advance/advmame.rc
device_video_modeline 1920x1080_60.00 153.234 1920 1968 2121 2168 1080 1127 1130 1178 +hsync +vsync

Also comment (put a # before) the line with 720p setting, so you get this:
#device_video_modeline ATSC-720-60p 73.44 1280 1312 1368 1632 720 722 728 728 +hsync +vsync

caver01

@udb23 that’s interesting. There was another thread here that I can’t find from just a few weeks ago where someone was using modelines to setup a CRT I think. Interesting that these are coming back. For a while, I remember BuZz saying that the AdvMAME modelines did not really make sense because you can’t control the Pi's video that way (video card control at this level was more applicable on other platforms). Anyway, I guess the latest AdvMAME 3.5 enables more control.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

In any case, having artwork flexibility in AdvanceMAME is good for everyone, so I have my fingers crossed!

I'll second that for the games that require AdvMAME to run and support seeing this work would be a great enhancement. I forgot Rampage doesn't work in lr-mame2003 when messing this weekend (service mode) and they don't work in mame4all-pi(?) so I wasn't able to see Rampage with Overlay. If you need anything tested just let me know.

I think I have display_expand shut off which auto expands vertical games on horizontal monitors. Here's a link to the "Display Configuration Options" for AdvMAME if it helps any.

http://www.advancemame.it/doc-advmame#8.3

caver01

@riverstorm As long as we are throwing out titles, I am also interested in Star Castle. This is a vector game (so AdvMAME is the ticket) that is monochrome by design, but has cellophane overlay on the actual cabinet. However, it gets VERY dark on my system. I have not messed with anything, but might be one for the list.

Also, bzone has a nice bezel overlay. There might be something to learn regarding the artwork for this title. I am just brainstorming.

UDb23

@riverstorm said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

If you need anything tested just let me know.

if you have a 1080p display too (e.g. TV), could you simply install invaders.zip (old artwork from Mr Do's site) into the artwork subfolder of advmame rom's folder and enable bezel, overlay and backdrop in the .rc and let me know how it is displayed and what resolution is used?

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

This is a vector game (so AdvMAME is the ticket) that is monochrome by design, but has cellophane overlay on the actual cabinet. However, it gets VERY dark on my system.

It is on mine also but I think I tweaked it several times and it's acceptable but I agree it's dark. Solar Quest with it's star background I just couldn't get a decent compromise. It's either to bright and you loose the ship or to dim so you can see what you're playing.

if you have a 1080p display too (e.g. TV), could you simply install invaders.zip (old artwork from Mr Do's site) into the artwork subfolder of advmame rom's folder and enable bezel, overlay and backdrop in the .rc and let me know how it is displayed and what resolution is used?

I have a regular 1080p TV. I can try this tonight and get you the results. Does it matter if scanlines are on? I have scan2horz (2 horizontal) which works for most games (non-vector) but a few look pretty rough.

Riverstorm

@riverstorm said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

@caver01 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:
This is a vector game (so AdvMAME is the ticket) that is monochrome by design, but has cellophane overlay on the actual cabinet. However, it gets VERY dark on my system.

It is on mine also but I think I tweaked it several times and it's acceptable but I agree it's dark. Solar Quest with it's star background I just couldn't get a decent compromise. It's either to bright and you loose the ship or to dim so you can see what you're playing.

if you have a 1080p display too (e.g. TV), could you simply install invaders.zip (old artwork from Mr Do's site) into the artwork subfolder of advmame rom's folder and enable bezel, overlay and backdrop in the .rc and let me know how it is displayed and what resolution is used?

I have a regular 1080p TV. I can try this tonight and get you the results. Does it matter if scanlines are on? I have scan2horz (2 horizontal) which works for most games (non-vector) but a few look pretty rough. I think it's pixel dimensions something throws a few games off and they have like a window blinds shutter gradient look.

Riverstorm

How about this option on or off in your settings or doesn't matter?

display_artwork_crop yes

Riverstorm

@UDb23 - when I run Space Invaders with the options set you specified my resolution is 544x240. I think the option that is changing the resolution so drastically is "Mode...generate-quad" in your screen shot. My defaults to Mode 1. There's 5 modes 1-4 and auto. I couldn't find how to set a static resolution.

display_artwork_crop yes With this setting I can see a small garbled mess of colors and curvy lines on the very edge of the bottom (where the credits and ships show in your screenshot). It's like the bezel is expanded at it's full resolution and just the edge is showing. Basically 99% of the bezel is clipped except the inside bottom is showing on the bottom of the screen. Mode 1 stretches it to fit vertically and it's ok on Auto it looks real good.

Mode 1 - 544x240
Mode 2 - 1072x480
Mode 3 - 1600x720
Mode 4 - 2128x960
Auto - 1600x720 (Mode 3)

display_artwork_crop no With this setting I can see the whole bezel but the resolution of the game is (1104x492) and makes it look pretty rough.

Mode 1 - 1104x492
Mode 2 - 2192x984
Mode 3 - 3280x1476
Mode 4 - 4368x1968
Auto - 1104x492 (Mode 1)

EDIT: With artwork & overlay on and bezel off with Mode set to Auto it looks great.

UDb23

@riverstorm Thanks a lot for detailed testing.
So basically you too get the weird resolutions instead of 1920x1080 we're supposed to get.
I'm going to ask on this issue also on sourceforge's advmame forum as I noticed the developer of advmame usually replies there.

UDb23

@riverstorm Have also tried if this setting has any influence on resolution ?

Add the following line to /home/pi/.advance/advmame.rc
device_video_modeline 1920x1080_60.00 153.234 1920 1968 2121 2168 1080 1127 1130 1178 +hsync +vsync

Also comment (put a # before) the line with 720p setting, so you get this:
#device_video_modeline ATSC-720-60p 73.44 1280 1312 1368 1632 720 722 728 728 +hsync +vsync

UDb23

@riverstorm said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

I wasn't able to see Rampage with Overlay.

Rampage should work with lr-mame2010.
Rampage World Tour with FBA.

Riverstorm

@udb23 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

@riverstorm Thanks a lot for detailed testing.
So basically you too get the weird resolutions instead of 1920x1080 we're supposed to get.
I'm going to ask on this issue also on sourceforge's advmame forum as I noticed the developer of advmame usually replies there.

Yeah it was all over depending on the Mode setting. I never could find the setting that is showing up in your screenshot (mode... generate-quad). I had just the 5 modes (1-4 and auto) so it would look like Mode... [1]. Also the higher resolutions pushed the game right and down to the point it wasn't playable. So I would only see the top left corner of the play area.

I think the AdvMAME forums would be great. Maybe @caver01 knows how to set a static resolution that doesn't change so dynamically. You would think it would be a fairly straight forward thing to do but apparently not.

The other option I change is display_expand 1.25. I change it to a factor 1 so it's ratio is more accurate vs. 1.25 which fills the screen.

@riverstorm Have also tried if this setting has any influence on resolution ?

Add the following line to /home/pi/.advance/advmame.rc
device_video_modeline 1920x1080_60.00 153.234 1920 1968 2121 2168 1080 1127 1130 1178 +hsync +vsync

Also comment (put a # before) the line with 720p setting, so you get this:
#device_video_modeline ATSC-720-60p 73.44 1280 1312 1368 1632 720 722 728 728 +hsync +vsync

You want me to give this a try and see what kind of results they produce?

Rampage should work with lr-mame2010.

I will give this a try at some point. lr-mame2010 is one emulator I haven't even tried loading yet but I do have FBA loaded. :)

caver01

@riverstorm No, I don't know how to set a specific resolution of the game. It seems that advancemame works a little differently. On traditional hardware (desktop PCs etc) you would use the included utilities like advv to figure out the best modeline for your display. As you can tell by the params, specifying a modeline gives you extremely precise control over the frequencies of the video signal (or an allowable range). From what I have read, this was designed to exert direct control over the video output in order to generate the most authentic (more most desired) video signal for a given display. Once you have the display configured (and this has been automatic for the most part on the Pi), you can use commands or in-game GUI menus to generate the magnification factor (like generate double, quad etc) to double or triple etc. the resolution of the game. If the modeline accommodates a given game resolution, it switches on the fly (like changing resolutions on a multi-sync monitor). Finally, the game window can be scaled with effects (I like filter or mean, as it does some smoothing).

Needless to say, all of these settings combine for what can be an extremely confusing experience. Not bothering with modelines is really helpful to remove a level of confusion from the equation, but the apparent recent updates that bring them back on the Pi can also be extremely helpful if you are driving a CRT.

I don't think there is a solid rule of thumb or a universal use case because we are all using different displays. For example, I use a Sony 19" 1280x1024 display while others might be using HDTVs. In the earlier days of Advmame compiled for the Pi, it was pretty challenging getting all of this worked out for vector games to run at native resolution. It as improved a lot since then, but I feel like the recent deep dive back into modelines is making it harder again.

UDb23

@riverstorm said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

You want me to give this a try and see what kind of results they produce?

If you have time and it's not a big effort, yes please.
I can't currently do that.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

No, I don't know how to set a specific resolution of the game.

Ok I always think of you when it comes to AdvMAME as you have covered the gambit.

Basically AdvMAME plays big brother so to speak and decides what is the best resolution? Yes it seems all the options magnification, mode, effects, display_expand, etc. make it more challenging to nail down a resolution but without them it seems vector games couldn't be tweaked as good as you did.

If you have time and it's not a big effort, yes please.
I can't currently do that.

Ok, I will get back to you here today. @caver01 @UDb23 Are those settings what I should use? There's no device_video_modeline settings in my .rc file. I'm not sure what all the parameters are as the manual has like 2 sentences on the command.

caver01

@riverstorm You can do a lot of research online regarding advmame modelines. You are effectively specifying the horizontal and vertical scanline frequencies, front porch, back porch, etc.--such concepts translate directly to the CRT electron beams, but don't really make much sense with a digital display which is why I am surprised this avenue is being pursued at all. A modeline specifies the pixel clock timings for translating a digital image into an analog video signal. Is this really necessary if you are not connecting a CRT? You could, in theory, specify an exact modeline per ROM in the .rc file which seems like overkill. Consequently, you end up using a modeline with ranges in the parameters. Advancemame will use the range to generate the best video for the game. I wonder if non-crt users are gaining anything by doing this. I would expect that a modeline would need to cover the capabilities of the HDMI, and then it will just pick a compatible video mode--and what have you gained?

I guess I am saying that modelines may not be a useful technique to achieve better overlays and background artwork. Leaving this line out of the .rc will allow the emulator to use the capabilities you have configured on the Pi already.

Riverstorm

@udb23 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

@riverstorm Have also tried if this setting has any influence on resolution ?

Add the following line to /home/pi/.advance/advmame.rc
device_video_modeline 1920x1080_60.00 153.234 1920 1968 2121 2168 1080 1127 1130 1178 +hsync +vsync

Also comment (put a # before) the line with 720p setting, so you get this:
#device_video_modeline ATSC-720-60p 73.44 1280 1312 1368 1632 720 722 728 728 +hsync +vsync

I wonder if non-crt users are gaining anything by doing this. I would expect that a modeline would need to cover the capabilities of the HDMI, and then it will just pick a compatible video mode--and what have you gained?

@UDb23 @caver01 - I think you are correct Caver adding the line to the .rc file did not change anything. The resolutions were exactly the same as without it.

So basically unless there's a way to force a specific resolution then it's probably not possible to create precise bezels? From the different settings I tried it looked like the bezel was resized (down) or clipped.

Trying to summarize what's happening does AdvMAME pick a compatible video mode and then resizes the game to fit...what? How is it calculating these odd resolutions? The 4000+ lines leave you just a small upper left square of the screen and is completely useless for playing. How would you word what it's doing?