Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem

Riverstorm

@udb23 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

@riverstorm Thanks a lot for detailed testing.
So basically you too get the weird resolutions instead of 1920x1080 we're supposed to get.
I'm going to ask on this issue also on sourceforge's advmame forum as I noticed the developer of advmame usually replies there.

Yeah it was all over depending on the Mode setting. I never could find the setting that is showing up in your screenshot (mode... generate-quad). I had just the 5 modes (1-4 and auto) so it would look like Mode... [1]. Also the higher resolutions pushed the game right and down to the point it wasn't playable. So I would only see the top left corner of the play area.

I think the AdvMAME forums would be great. Maybe @caver01 knows how to set a static resolution that doesn't change so dynamically. You would think it would be a fairly straight forward thing to do but apparently not.

The other option I change is display_expand 1.25. I change it to a factor 1 so it's ratio is more accurate vs. 1.25 which fills the screen.

@riverstorm Have also tried if this setting has any influence on resolution ?

Add the following line to /home/pi/.advance/advmame.rc
device_video_modeline 1920x1080_60.00 153.234 1920 1968 2121 2168 1080 1127 1130 1178 +hsync +vsync

Also comment (put a # before) the line with 720p setting, so you get this:
#device_video_modeline ATSC-720-60p 73.44 1280 1312 1368 1632 720 722 728 728 +hsync +vsync

You want me to give this a try and see what kind of results they produce?

Rampage should work with lr-mame2010.

I will give this a try at some point. lr-mame2010 is one emulator I haven't even tried loading yet but I do have FBA loaded. :)

caver01

@riverstorm No, I don't know how to set a specific resolution of the game. It seems that advancemame works a little differently. On traditional hardware (desktop PCs etc) you would use the included utilities like advv to figure out the best modeline for your display. As you can tell by the params, specifying a modeline gives you extremely precise control over the frequencies of the video signal (or an allowable range). From what I have read, this was designed to exert direct control over the video output in order to generate the most authentic (more most desired) video signal for a given display. Once you have the display configured (and this has been automatic for the most part on the Pi), you can use commands or in-game GUI menus to generate the magnification factor (like generate double, quad etc) to double or triple etc. the resolution of the game. If the modeline accommodates a given game resolution, it switches on the fly (like changing resolutions on a multi-sync monitor). Finally, the game window can be scaled with effects (I like filter or mean, as it does some smoothing).

Needless to say, all of these settings combine for what can be an extremely confusing experience. Not bothering with modelines is really helpful to remove a level of confusion from the equation, but the apparent recent updates that bring them back on the Pi can also be extremely helpful if you are driving a CRT.

I don't think there is a solid rule of thumb or a universal use case because we are all using different displays. For example, I use a Sony 19" 1280x1024 display while others might be using HDTVs. In the earlier days of Advmame compiled for the Pi, it was pretty challenging getting all of this worked out for vector games to run at native resolution. It as improved a lot since then, but I feel like the recent deep dive back into modelines is making it harder again.

UDb23

@riverstorm said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

You want me to give this a try and see what kind of results they produce?

If you have time and it's not a big effort, yes please.
I can't currently do that.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

No, I don't know how to set a specific resolution of the game.

Ok I always think of you when it comes to AdvMAME as you have covered the gambit.

Basically AdvMAME plays big brother so to speak and decides what is the best resolution? Yes it seems all the options magnification, mode, effects, display_expand, etc. make it more challenging to nail down a resolution but without them it seems vector games couldn't be tweaked as good as you did.

If you have time and it's not a big effort, yes please.
I can't currently do that.

Ok, I will get back to you here today. @caver01 @UDb23 Are those settings what I should use? There's no device_video_modeline settings in my .rc file. I'm not sure what all the parameters are as the manual has like 2 sentences on the command.

caver01

@riverstorm You can do a lot of research online regarding advmame modelines. You are effectively specifying the horizontal and vertical scanline frequencies, front porch, back porch, etc.--such concepts translate directly to the CRT electron beams, but don't really make much sense with a digital display which is why I am surprised this avenue is being pursued at all. A modeline specifies the pixel clock timings for translating a digital image into an analog video signal. Is this really necessary if you are not connecting a CRT? You could, in theory, specify an exact modeline per ROM in the .rc file which seems like overkill. Consequently, you end up using a modeline with ranges in the parameters. Advancemame will use the range to generate the best video for the game. I wonder if non-crt users are gaining anything by doing this. I would expect that a modeline would need to cover the capabilities of the HDMI, and then it will just pick a compatible video mode--and what have you gained?

I guess I am saying that modelines may not be a useful technique to achieve better overlays and background artwork. Leaving this line out of the .rc will allow the emulator to use the capabilities you have configured on the Pi already.

Riverstorm

@udb23 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

@riverstorm Have also tried if this setting has any influence on resolution ?

Add the following line to /home/pi/.advance/advmame.rc
device_video_modeline 1920x1080_60.00 153.234 1920 1968 2121 2168 1080 1127 1130 1178 +hsync +vsync

Also comment (put a # before) the line with 720p setting, so you get this:
#device_video_modeline ATSC-720-60p 73.44 1280 1312 1368 1632 720 722 728 728 +hsync +vsync

I wonder if non-crt users are gaining anything by doing this. I would expect that a modeline would need to cover the capabilities of the HDMI, and then it will just pick a compatible video mode--and what have you gained?

@UDb23 @caver01 - I think you are correct Caver adding the line to the .rc file did not change anything. The resolutions were exactly the same as without it.

So basically unless there's a way to force a specific resolution then it's probably not possible to create precise bezels? From the different settings I tried it looked like the bezel was resized (down) or clipped.

Trying to summarize what's happening does AdvMAME pick a compatible video mode and then resizes the game to fit...what? How is it calculating these odd resolutions? The 4000+ lines leave you just a small upper left square of the screen and is completely useless for playing. How would you word what it's doing?

UDb23

@riverstorm Thanks for this additional trial.
We definitively need to involve advmame's developer; he surely can tell to about video modes and how to setup an overlay the way it's supposed to work.
August is not the best timing as basically in Italy everybody's on holiday; so he may not respond for a while. Will try anyway.
btw: as I'm in Italy too I'll finally take holidays soon. :-D

Riverstorm

@udb23 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

@riverstorm Thanks for this additional trial.
We definitively need to involve advmame's developer; he surely can tell to about video modes and how to setup an overlay the way it's supposed to work.
August is not the best timing as basically in Italy everybody's on holiday; so he may not respond for a while. Will try anyway.
btw: as I'm in Italy too I'll finally take holidays soon. :-D

I need to take a holiday soon too. Here we can bank 416 hours (about 10 1/2 weeks) and I am at 412. I loose them when I hit my cap.

The thing is we are right in the middle of a forklift firewall upgrade. We have about 100 zones, 700 rules, 400 address objects and service groups. A fair amount of Natting, IPSec tunnels with our major cellular carrier for mobiles in our law enforcement vehicles and also to the State for Metro Communications (our 911 centers). We import a lot of AD groups via LDAP for content filtering & application layer filtering and what not.

Several security services like, Intrusion Prevention, GEO-IP filtering (country blocks), RBL's (for email), gateway antivirus, etc. It's a bit of a monster upgrade and I am the whole team doing it. One person.

Our main reason for forklifting and switching vendors is better logging as I think we'll see a few people get fired due to severe surfing habits. I really dislike policing others surfing but I get my marching orders from my director who receives requests from other departments. That lovely chain of command.

We are a small organization (about 1000) and don't really have dedicated "duties" in I.T. (like you might see in a bank). My next project will be VMWare and SRM, then the network core (switching fabric replacement), routers & storage management (NetApp and a Cisco UCS chassis) to finish out the year. Oh and Windows certificate services (several certificates expire in a few months for AD authentication, wireless, etc.) which I honestly hate working on as it's not my strong suit. CA's and subordinates, doling them out via group policy. Rinse and repeat next year. :)

Anyway long story short I need to take a holiday soon too or I'll start loosing the hours. When you get back from holiday or if he responds just let me know if you need any help testing.

caver01

@riverstorm Just don't become so overworked that you accidentally block your own access to retropie.org.uk!

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

@riverstorm Just don't become so overworked that you accidentally block your own access to retropie.org.uk!

Right! I have a little "test" VLAN on it's own subinterface that doesn't need logging or any geo-ip filtering of course as there's no viral threats coming from the UK! ;) Since I also do all the switching I can tap the routing from the core to the internet switch upstream. Actually I could bypass it all by terminating a drop in the WAN VLAN but keeping most of the security services in place is good and getting to retropie.org.uk is an essential work service! ;)

UDb23

@riverstorm I understand your situation very well; continuing to accumulate holidays but not being able to actually take them due to important business matters.
Same happens to me.
As soon as you complete/solve one situation, another project or issue already started.
As important our Business Life is, and it is, still we need to find and dedicate some time for ourselves. Also taking no vacation and accumulating stress does NOT improve quality of our work ;-)
Hope you can get the holidays you deserve soon.

Riverstorm

@udb23 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

Also taking no vacation and accumulating stress does NOT improve quality of our work ;-)

Agreed. I was reading an article that said people who take their vacations are actually more productive and feel better overall.

We do have some small trips planned for area events (within a 5 or 6 hour drive) over long weekends and we have a bigger trip planned for Trinidad & Tobago to do the Carnival experience (like a Mardi Gras).

My significant other has quite a bit less vacation per year so mine accumulates faster. I take a day or two hear and there to go to a movie or some other activities for the day but getting away from the tech...mostly...for a few weeks is very refreshing! ;)

Things are flexible now with planning/implementation but once the go live date for the cut over/transition is set it will be a busy few weeks. Plus we carry on-call phones and we do get calls all hours of the night, weekends and holidays. Even on vacation they will pick up the tab for international rates when leaving the country (which we do about half the time). I guess the perk is a new iPhone every year with all the bells and whistles of unlimited data, hot spot, etc. etc. but honestly I would trade it in a heartbeat and buy my own phone/plan to not carry it.

UDb23

Created a request for support on the advancemame forum.
Hope the developer can find time to help on this matter.

Riverstorm

@udb23 said in Advancemame 3.5: overlays & resolution problem:

Created a request for support on the advancemame forum.
Hope the developer can find time to help on this matter.

That's great it'll be interesting to see if it's possible. Everyone getting back to work now that the holiday is over?

UDb23

Advancemame 3.6 is available. Changes mention : "Fixed screen size computation using backdrops."
Anybody tried if this fixes the overlay issues ?

mediamogul

@udb23

I was going to ask if this only affects custom overlays, but I see you've tested the Mr. Do's Arcade files as well. That's really strange, as they display correctly on mine. I play space invaders somewhat frequently and other than the old artwork being super low-res, the aspect and placement are fine.

UDb23

@mediamogul said in lr-mame2003 driver improvement and backport:

being super low-res

The image files used by the overlay are good res, so that's already an issue.
What screen resolution are you using ?
What does advmame show if you check the resolution during invaders gameplay?

mediamogul

@udb23

I've looked at my screen res versus the game's display and they appear to correspond, but I want to check some potential inconsistencies later this evening. I'll get back with you.

caver01

@mediamogul I will throw in the test I recently did with backgrounds for INVADERS and WARLORDS. Both of the old artwork backgrounds are nice, high res, but they seem to only render at game resolution, even if running the game at double, or triple magnification. So, nice clean backgrounds are completely wasted and converted to awful pixelated versions. I suspect overlays will do the same.

This problem goes away, however, when you run vector titles, probably because they can render at native display resolution and the background follows suit. So, asteroids deluxe and Omega Race can have gorgeous background art.

mediamogul

@caver01

I'm actually doing a little testing and research right now. It looks as though all artwork is applied before any resizing is done. Also, in the official documents, the method for resizing raster games is noted to be independent from the method handling vector games. This of course jibes with what you've already noticed. Ideally, to get higher quality artwork, the software would need to first resize the game and then resize the artwork to fit. However, I wonder if that wouldn't affect performance. Outside of this though, my aspect ratio and placement are as they should be. I'm glad I looked into this tonight, as I discovered a few settings that have increased performance enough to run 'Spider-Man: The Video Game' without any audio issues.