Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!
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Raspberry Pi 4 won't come out at least until 2019.
Long story short, Raspberry pi 3 still holds on pretty well and with the current tech there is not to much they can upgrade that would make a bigger difference from Rpi3, so they are holding on a bit with Rpi4.
Read more here:
http://www.itpro.co.uk/desktop-hardware/27763/raspberry-pi-4-google-announces-partnership-with-raspberry-pi-foundation-2 -
@deltax5 said in Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!:
They should just make it the best $100 board it can be. I'm fine paying 100 bucks if it's amazing. anything more I may as well get a cheap old computer.
@herb_fargus said in Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!:
You fail to understand the purpose the pi was built for. Higan requires at least a 3GHZ machine to even begin to be close to proper so I wouldn't hold your breath.
Okay here we go...(in a nutshell)
Emulation does NOT run like the actual hardware and never will. In order to emulate you must load the software into ram..much like a PC no big deal right? Well that is incorrect. With emulation you must load the hardware and the software into ram thus eating up ram and making your computer slow. Combine this with "bad code" or hacks to get things to work AT ALL..well now you see the problem! That being said..if you are going to make an emulator more accurate it will cost more resources. When I was using DOS and got a faster computer I had to use a slowdown program to literally slow down my cpu to make the games not run so fast. The program was not written for a machine of that speed. So running a snes game on a modern PC "raw" would make it so damned fast you couldn't even play it.
Now let's talk about the pi...
First off the pi has a RISC cpu NOT a standard 8086 cpu. RISC stands for Reduced Instruction Set Chip. It is ARM-7 based just like the snes. But unlike the snes it does not have a extra sound chip to do sound..and it has to emulate hardware so it has to use all it's RAM to do what it needs to do (compare that to the snes that doesn't have to emulate hardware and had an extra sound cpu). Also understand that the raspberry pi 1 B+ is an equivalent of a 400 mhz computer. And yes it is. (I still have my 400Mhz computer with 64mb of ram and it runs about that well.) The pi 3 might be equivalent to a 600mhz but not that much more. ARISC does not do as many instruction set cycles as an standard 8006 cpu. Thus it runs much cooler but at a BIG cost of performance. That being said....Lets talk about upgrading the pi..
First there are MUCH faster single board computers out there. Just look at your smartphone. Yes your smartphone. That is what the pi is. How much did you pay for it? I know it was NOT thirty-five USD. If you want better performance then you need to have a board that has at minimum three CPUs. A CPU (brain) A GPU (graphics) and an A[udio]CPU (sound) then the main CPU can be freed to do crunching of instructions. Which the 3DO, N64, Sega Saturn, and the Sega Dreamcast all had (in one form or another..which is why they are difficult to emulate properly) so they could do more. That would make the PI a "real computer" and give it a "real price tag"! One thing that the pi could benefit from is faster RAM...but again cost..and the PI is made to be cheap. That is the raspberry pi foundation's goal. (aside from the heat issue.)So....
Yes you could get a cheap PC and get MUCH better performance. Besides when you add it all up (pi,case,power, hdmi cable,sdcard) it almost comes to 100 bucks anyway! That is NOT the point though. The point is just the coolness factor of the whole idea. (Try fitting a PC into a snes case!) The rasp pi was never designed for what we are doing with it. We are making the pi what it is. We are allowed to make the pi whatever we want it to be...thus why it it SO popular! Yes I would LOVE to see a more powerful pi and have it run dreacast games smoothly (note that PCs have a hard time doing that too!) and everything in between for "$35-ish". I'm crazy? Yes..so is everyone else (you KNOW you want that too! lol) One day that will come. For now I will complain and mumble..but truth is I am very happy with what i have because it is amazing what can be done with this thing at this price...here's to hoping that the raspberry pi foundation never losses sight of it's present goal..and here is looking to what they can do in the future! I might have to wait but the wait will be worth it!...(just hurry it up already! ;P) -
I think a lot of us get caught up in the fun and challenge of the Raspberry Pis (I've bought them since the Pi 1) and we get so close to doing 'everything' we want to do and we sometimes lose sight of the big picture of the Pi project and get aggravated that the RAM isn't just 20% faster, the processor isn't a 1.5ghz , or that my stupid NesPi case still gets voltage warnings lol. I am definitely guilty of all of that. My Pi 3B can /almost/ play my favorite N64 games and plenty of MAME games and that can be a huge tease.
This is when I usually stop tinkering and start Googling solutions and even other options. When I see all of the projects the Pi can do, even the Pi Zero, it puts things back in perspective. It can be a security camera, weather tracker, router, and with heat issues it can even be a pocket hand warmer in the winter time. Once I see how amazing the Pi is again for the price and size ( almost every project fits in your pocket!!) I immediately appreciate what it can do.
I never pursue other options though. The community here is unmatched and I would only get more frustrated trying to work on other systems without this free, massive community.
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I thought they release them February's or is that when they announce them.
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THey should make a pi version that is more expensive with speeds like a modern cell phone so we can get hi gan working. we need 3hz. We can't tell them this is a secret organization that takes advantage of a hardware that is for other perpases.
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Yup, super secret to the point that the project has been featured in the foundation's own magazine a few times.
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@deltax5 Again 3Ghz. That would be a twelve core each core running 2.0 Ghz to even get close to a 3Ghz 8086 CPU. That would be a HOT item indeed! Although they have found ways to make them run cool at faster speeds..but this is a new technique and not cheap to do..that would make the pi the price of a modern smart phone ($500-$1,000). I'm NOT taking out a line of credit for a pi! 0.0 Of course I say that now... lol
And the Orange Pi has class/price tiers but no support (or little) so is it useful or not? And yes I am temped to get the Orange Pi equivalent of the pi3 but..I would be "on my own" I think.
Funny how the Arm RISCs were popular in the 80's..then people said they are rubbish..now every body has one (and doesn't know it! lol) ..but then again I know a guy that HATES linux and REFUSES to use it..but he has an Android phone and loves MY pi sooo... shrugs ...but that is a different rabbit hole for a different forum...
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@deltax5 said in Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!:
Please be enough to run hi gan. I am tired of this input lag.
Snes9x already performs optimally in this regard. It adds no additional latency over what’s already in the games themselves. The only reason you’d want to use Higan is if Snes9x accuracy doesn’t cut it.
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@brunnis said in Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!:
@deltax5 said in Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!:
Please be enough to run hi gan. I am tired of this input lag.
Snes9x already performs optimally in this regard. It adds no additional latency over what’s already in the games themselves. The only reason you’d want to use Higan is if Snes9x accuracy doesn't cut it.
On my pc i notice alot less input delay with hi gan then snes9x. even zsnes has less input delay (thou still noticeable). I don't understand why zsnes isn't in retropi it has a linux version. IDK I tested this on my windows pc and I get the same input lag with the pi and windows with snes9x. Sigh I know having a better tv will help cause there is alot that a emulator does causing the lag.
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I'd like:
- the wifi chip to support mesh protocol
Reasons:
- Rpi 3 native chip supports "ad hoc" but not "mesh".
- Mesh protocol is more lightweight and simpler to implement .
- Mesh is easier to configure (almost nothing to do)
- An SATA connector
Reason:
- differentiating permanent connected disks from removable ones
- faster
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Untuggle RJ45 and USB connectors
Reason:
- free network performance -
USB 3.0
Reason :
- Accelerate I/O -
2 GB RAM or more
Reason :
- Faster
- Helps distributed Filesystem and DB implementation
- Helps massive parallel implementation
- Simplifies big data analysis
- should fluidify graphics -
Faster CPU/GPU
- Something like 2GHz for CPU
- Upgrade GPU but keeping the API (backwords compatible) -
same price
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optionnaly add a GSM card slot
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use the sound output jack for sound input too or add a sound input jack.
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Wifi a/b/g/ac
- the wifi chip to support mesh protocol
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Here is my bet on what I consider realistic specs for a Pi4.
Same form factor as Pi3 model B
1.6 GHz Quad-core ARMv8
New and more powerful GPU
2 GB RAM
USB 3.0 x 4 Port
Built in Bluetooth and WiFi
Gigabit Ethernet
Same GPIO array as previous models (obviously) -
We'll have to wait for at least a year from now, so I assume that hardware will be seriously upgraded.
I expect something at the class of a good $100 android phone, with 2-3GB of RAM and an 8-core CPU.
I really hope that there won't be any memory built-in as this would decrease the lifespan of the Pi4.
Also a little hardware power/shut down button would be an addition I would totally welcome.
For those who expect decent N64 emulation, I will have to disappoint you. N64 emulation is far from perfect even on modern PCs. It's a complex software implementation, not that much of a hardware demand.
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@matchaman I really hope they focus on upgrading the individual ARM cores, rather than just adding more of them, as emulators on RetroPie seem to be all single-threaded, so faster cores and a better GPU will be the most benefit. Agreed on not having built in storage. I'd rather stick with SD cards.
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@matchaman said in Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!:
For those who expect decent N64 emulation, I will have to disappoint you. N64 emulation is far from perfect even on modern PCs. It's a complex software implementation, not that much of a hardware demand.
Well I'm really glad you said it. I think people imagine that a Pi4 with unimaginable grunt will somehow be able to run N64 flawlessly. This is just not going to be the case. I'm running both a desktop and an Android box with much more power than a Pi3, and while you might at some basic level see some improvement here and there, overall N64 runs pretty roughly whatever your hardware. To be honest, it's a minor miracle we have it running at all on anything. It was a notoriously difficult beast the N64, much like the Saturn.
Personally I'm in no rush for a Pi4. The Pi3 does everything I've asked of it and serves the need well. I much prefer it to my Android box as a home centre. In fact I'm getting to the point where I'm done with Android altogether.
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@ranma said in Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!:
@matchaman said in Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!:
For those who expect decent N64 emulation, I will have to disappoint you. N64 emulation is far from perfect even on modern PCs. It's a complex software implementation, not that much of a hardware demand.
Well I'm really glad you said it. I think people imagine that a Pi4 with unimaginable grunt will somehow be able to run N64 flawlessly. This is just not going to be the case. I'm running both a desktop and an Android box with much more power than a Pi3, and while you might at some basic level see some improvement here and there, overall N64 runs pretty roughly whatever your hardware. To be honest, it's a minor miracle we have it running at all on anything. It was a notoriously difficult beast the N64, much like the Saturn.
Personally I'm in no rush for a Pi4. The Pi3 does everything I've asked of it and serves the need well. I much prefer it to my Android box as a home centre. In fact I'm getting to the point where I'm done with Android altogether.
Well yes. Granted you can have BETTER performance on a PC, but that is as far as it goes. The more complex system (.i.e. more than one Z80 cpu) makes it difficult. I am surprised the 3DO works at all on a modern PC. (And it does work better with a different emulator I use than the 4DO core. Beyond that anything over 32-bits sans the Sega Saturn is the line. Too complex..too much hardware to emulate let alone loading the software.
More (and faster) RAM would be nice but unless they can start programing the emulators to dedicate a core to a single CPU (i.e. the 3DO had three main CPUs the the pi is a four core CPU..get the idea?) but if that worked so well mame should scream when using more than one core..but it doesn't.
All in all The pi does MUCH more than what anyone thought it would ever do. If the raspberry PI 4 does it better..fine..does it faster..fine. Even if it doesn't I can't complain. :D has a truck deliver the raspberry pi team a few cases of beers
I just want to be able to use "crappy" CRT shaders and not lose performance..my CRT WILL die one day sigh
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After messing with a fantastic new-old-stock CRT TV, it appears that my #1 request for the next Pi would be something like this:
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@matchaman No thanks. Better solutions out there already.
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I know but those are external devices. I'd rather have a single unit that gives out the best possible 240p signal.
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@sirdrexl said in Raspberry pi 4 place your bets here!:
Aside from specs, one thing I hope they do is change the layout of the ports a bit. I'd like to see 2 USB ports on the same side as the HDMI and power outputs and 2 ports on the opposite side (rather than perpendicular to them).
Some improvement to powering on/off would also be welcome. It doesn't have to be a real switch/button, just a pair of pins that would power the system on and off (with proper shutdown if turning it off) if you short it. Then you'd only need a simple switch, rather than something more complicated like the Mausberry circuit.
I bought a case on Amazon that included a USB power lead with an inbuilt rocker switch (like a desktop lamp), works great. Case, heat sinks and lead for ÂŁ10
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What I hope for personally is for the Pi 4 to keep a form factor so similar that it will still fit in all the Pi 3 cases. I also hope that it remains below $40 USD. The real charm of the Pi for emulation is the fact that we are all working from the same point of view. What works on my Pi is very likely to work on yours, etc.
It would be nice to see more RAM, a faster chip, slight faster integrated GPU, etc. In other words, incremental upgrades. Right now it does pretty much what I want it too. A little bit of extra juice might improve N64 performance and let me run the high resolution mode for PS1 without a fan. That would be perfection.
Other things like USB 3 and better wireless on board would be nice, but only if the price can be maintained. Honestly, for our purposes do those things really improve usage that much?
Well.. a Bluetooth module that doesn't overheat would be nice too.
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