MAME ROW #42 - Joust
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Let’s say you were on the design team to develop Joust 2 (ignore the actual one). What would you change? What would you add? Here are a few ideas I would have loved to see in a better sequel:
- Eggs hatch, and the knight can run on the platform to avoid getting killed (Maybe even leap down to another platform, run to their vulture mount, etc.)
- Maybe a Defender-like side scrolling world, higher resolution
- Powerups (invincibility, co-op shields, missile weapons?)
- Lava trolls that crawl out of the lava to grab you if you hang out on the bottom platform too long
- Player dismounts result in an egg–just like the enemies. You can also hatch and run on the platform to signal your bird to return, possibly surviving a kill.
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It's a near perfect game as-is. I'd probably just add more cowbell and call it a day.
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@mediamogul fair enough. So you are saying it needs more cowbell.
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I just can’t break 6 figures! Oh well. 100K is the new goal my friends. Here’s my new score (and selfie reflection).
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50 measly points away. Still, great score.
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Here are are a couple of “fun” little tidbits in the game:
Did anyone notice the ghost pixels that get left behind when the top center platform disintegrates? It clears up as soon as a sprite moves over it.
There is another weird ghost platform trick. If you can setup a situation such that the wave just before the platform disintegrates (I forget which wave that would be) you have a player spawning on that platform, when the level ends, it will sound like it is disintegrating but all of the pixels will get left behind like the ghost pixel above. This is way easier said than done. The easiest way to make it happen is in co-op. You let a mount sit as an egg. Then, while one player is about to get the last egg and finish the level, the other player must commit suicide in the lava. If they start spawning on the top platform, grab the egg, end the level, and the platform will “disintegrate” leaving ghost pixels behind. Worth it? Probably not.
How about the “knee-bounce and squeeze” through the two adjacent platforms on the right? If you fly into the lower left platform at the right altitude so your bird cannot extend its legs, you knee-bounce across the platform to the left of the screen, re-enter on the right, and ZIP you will squeeze through the small step gap and come out underneath.
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JOUST STRATEGY/TECHNIQUES
Ok, guys, I know it’s only been a day with this game, and even though it is my avatar, I don’t really consider myself an expert player. However, in the spirit of sharing I wanted to pass along everything I have learned about playing this game over the years. If you have other ideas to contribute, I can update this post.
It can help to have some reference, so here is an image with the platforms numbered:
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Where to “hang out” – This really depends, but for the most part, I try to get into the upper-right side of the screen and hover just under the left lip of platform 3. This is a great "home" spot for a lot of reasons which will become clear below, but hovering here allows you to dismount most of the traffic below without a lot of risk from above. Any enemy coming from the upper-left will be in view for the entire width of the screen. You can easily duck under 3 and they cannot get you. Enemies coming from above 3 will have too much momentum to drop into your head and will fly over you. The only catch is that you have to watch the other side of the screen for enemies on approach through the edge. You can also roam around the top platforms a bit, but you will need some vertical space to win fights. Next to 3 is good hunting.
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Learn to merge with traffic. Sometimes you need to get above the enemy, but they are flying really fast. Get a running start and try to match speed with them rather than attempt to frogger your way through. It is much easier to treat it like a freeway on-ramp. This goes for close calls too. If you are not sure about a collision, best to go with the flow and live another day as you match speed and reposition.
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Don't attack. Let the enemy come to you. If you are in the home spot at the edge of platform 3, don't go flying around to kill the other mounts. Let them make their way to you from below. Eventually, they will start to come near and you can drop onto them. As you maneuver around, you can drop onto platform 6 to draw them in, rest your flap hand and when someone approaches, lift off. Sometimes you will go too high and they go right under. No problem. They will come back around. Don't rush to kill.
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Use the inter-wave time to get to the top. You have a few moments after your last kill to fly around. Save your victory dance for Yar's Revenge. Get your mount to the home spot above the enemy spawn points.
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Block enemy spawning. Get to platform 2 after every wave. While the enemy spawns, so long as you are standing on 2 they will not spawn there. This keeps them down at the bottom of the screen so that you can return to the home position between 2, 3 and 6 and they will float up to meet their doom.
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Recognize that you need to flap to move horizontally not just vertically, and momentum is everything. Sure, you can run if you are on the ground, and a fast stop is possible by skidding, but the joystick does nothing in the air if you are not flapping. Apart from gravity, this fantastic physics dynamic is what makes this game super fun to learn (and maddening when it leads to your demise). If you want to move through the air horizontally, you either need to have the momentum from a run, or you must flap while pushing left or right. Rapid flapping and you will also rise quickly, but if you get the right timing, a few flaps and stick will have you moving very quickly through horizontal space. The same goes for stopping. If you need to change directions, you have to flap, otherwise you will glide in the direction you were going and it will feel like you are out of control. Once you master this, you will be quite nimble with your motion and it will become second nature, flapping when you need to in order to induce directional change or to maintain altitude. This is game design brilliance in my opinion. NOTE: It may not be obvious in emulation, but Joust uses only a two-directional joystick. There is no UP or DOWN—only LEFT RIGHT and FLAP. That's all you need!
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Pick up eggs when it is safe to do so. Don't get excited to grab those eggs. Points vary depending on when you grab them, but it is rarely worth a mount. Pick them out of the air if it is convenient, otherwise, clear the traffic and collect rewards when it is safer to do so.
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Don't let the Shadow Lord hatch. Yes, he's worth a bunch of points, but the blue mounts are more trouble than they are worth. They flap incredibly fast, and are very hard to kill as a result, as they often bounce off the top of the screen. It can be busy sometimes keeping track of fallen eggs, so you do eventually have to grab them, but if you see a knightless buzzard doing this quick flap up and down, it is making its way to a hatched Shadow Lord and you need to grab that guy before he mounts.
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Egg Wave: I always make my way to the top, usually platform 1 before the eggs appear. Then, you can grab them all with only a couple flaps. Run from 1 to 3 through the screen edge, land on 2, then slow down a bit as you fall to 4 so as not to overshoot an egg down there. Then, continue through the screen to 7, a quick flap up a step to 6, then slow down to catch eggs on 5, then hit the ground at 8. Sure, you can go the opposite direction too, just don't fly over any as you leap down from upper platforms. If a few mounts hatch and you cannot get there in time, no big deal. They are all red, and probably toward the bottom of the screen so should be easy kills. Head back to the Home position above 6 or above where they hatch and drop onto them. With practice, you can easily grab every egg before it hatches.
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Play survival waves carefully. 3000 free points is a nice bonus just for not dying.
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The ground spawn (platform 8) is inevitable. You are on a high traffic level, you die, and the only open respawn is at the bottom. It sucks. What do you do? Well, don't try to shoot up through traffic. You will surely die. Instead, let them come to you. Under platform 5 you are relatively safe and you can see the action. It is easy to flap a couple times to get above an approaching foe. I usually stand on the ground for a while so the enemy starts to descend and then I hover beneath 6, much like I would in the home spot above enjoying some protection from above while picking off the enemy as they try to avoid the lava troll from the right. Just be careful not to hit your head:
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Watch your head. If you are hanging out under a platform such as the last bullet, flapping too high will have you bumping the platform above. Usually this is bad because the platform will nudge your mount over to the lip. If you are trying to stay safe underneath 6 for example, bumping your head will push you closer to 5 and might drive you up into the enemy. You want to stay close to the underside of 6, just try not to crash into it, and if you do, steer back under it.
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Pick off enemies that are bumping their heads. It is easy to recognize an enemy trying to rise from under a platform. They flap, bump, nudge out, flap, bump, and eventually reach the lip and rise. This is so predictable. Just walk over to the edge and drop onto them.
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Use the head bump at the top of the screen to your advantage. One advanced technique is to flap hard into the top of the screen. Your momentum will drive you up into the barrier and bounce you back down again. This is a redirection of the flapping momentum and it can be a great way to "dive" down and away from the enemy. Usually, you have to wait until gravity overcomes your flapping before you start to fall downward. With this technique, you bounce off the ceiling. It doesn't work the same way under platforms where your flap momentum is redirected to the sides.
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Let fast foes fly over your head. Sometimes you feel a draw to constantly out-flap the enemy, but like you, they can have a lot of diagonal momentum. Rather than face a challenging collision, it can be easier to let them go. It’s like a Tom Cruise/Maverick Top Gun move. Hit the breaks and they fly right by. If you see them going fast enough, they won’t be able to stop, so you can often just stop flapping and they will arc up and over you, especially on waves where upper platforms are gone. The good news is that they will stop flapping too and they will be on the downward glide vector while you are already thinking ahead and can get above them on the next pass through the screen. The fast moving enemy just doesn’t make directional changes the way you can. They tend to coast more.
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Killing the pterodactyl is hard. You have to get him directly in the mouth. If you haven't seen it yet, there is a wave eight or nine (you know it is coming because there is text on the screen that warns you) where the pterodactyl spawns immediately. Well, it flies in from the edge of the screen as the first enemy mounts start to spawn. You can complete this level by avoiding it and taking out the buzzards, but it will be flying around. If you can make your way to the center of platform 5 before the wave begins, the pterodactyl usually enters from below 4 or 7. Turn to face it as it approaches you and it often flies right into your lance. Then, immediately get above the spawning traffic and finish everyone off.
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When the Home spot disappears as platforms disintegrate, just stay above the traffic. It can help to stay off the very top edge of the screen as sometimes the faster mounts will hover along that top edge and of course, you cannot get above them. Better to stay down a bit from that edge so you have some headroom to get above them.
I hope this helps everyone get more out of the game!
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Great dedication and great tips - will try this out! Thanks!
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@caver01 Man! Your post deserves a dedicated topic in "General discussion and gaming" section! Really cool!
I was exactly looking for a good home spot. :-)
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Very nice! Can't wait to try for a higher score.
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I inserted a bullet above: the TOP GUN maneuver.
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Believe it or not I'd heard the name of this game before but never actually played it.
It makes a refreshing change to not have a fire button.
Unfortunately I'm not very good at playing it, but it's a fun game and a worthy selection for this week's mame row.
Doubt I'll get time to play it this weekend though as I'm off to the UK's longest running retro event for a couple of days!
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@gtbfilms That looks like a really cool event! Are you looking to pick up anything in particular, or just to be a spectator?
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Can anyone recommend me some shaders for Joust?
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@mattyl42 said in MAME ROW #42 - Joust:
Can anyone recommend me some shaders for Joust?
I dunno, to be authentic I think you'd want something like this
but I have to think it'd be hard to see…
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@obsidianspider Shnarff shnarff
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MAME ROW #43 is live!
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Well this has been fun.
The post from @caver01 makes me suggest that we could have a thread for each of the real arcade classics, like "Joust: official thread" for people to discuss tactics, talk about where they saw the game the first time, but maybe more importantly; to post photos of their hi-scores.I wasn't really familiar with Joust before this, but I'll definitely return soon.
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@caver01 said in MAME ROW #42 - Joust:
Joust has long been a favorite of mine. That doesn't mean I am very good at it though!
I believe this is what people often refer to as "modesty".
Give this man a medal! -
@andershp said in MAME ROW #42 - Joust:
Well this has been fun.
The post from @caver01 makes me suggest that we could have a thread for each of the real arcade classics, like "Joust: official thread" for people to discuss tactics, talk about where they saw the game the first time, but maybe more importantly; to post photos of their hi-scores.I wasn't really familiar with Joust before this, but I'll definitely return soon.
Nice idea.
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