Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003

Jon987

Hi,

As far as I'm aware the original Space Invaders arcade machine displayed a black and white picture and used a green overlay at the bottom of the screen to make the corresponding graphics appear green. However, I can't for the life of me figure out how to achieve this in lr-mame2003 despite many many hours of research and attempts. I have managed to get overlays working using a guide at

("RetroPie: Using MAME bezel overlays with RetroArch") but all that achieves in terms of in-game colour is a background image, not something that turns the appropriate foreground graphics green.

I have found that by using lr-mame2010 the green overlay is displayed by default, which is great, but unfortunately the emulator has compatibility issues with other ROMs I want to play including Donkey Kong (it randomly and frequently crashes). I also understand that lr-mame2014 and higher have even more problems and performance issues (although I am in the process of experimenting with them anyway).

If there is no way of getting the green overlay working in lr-mame2003 then is it possible to set RetroPie to use lr-mame2010 for Space Invaders and lr-mame2003 for all other ROMs?

Any help with this is most appreciated and I apologise if this issue has been brought up before; I honestly think I've exhausted my googling on this one!

Thanks,

Jon

Pi Model or other hardware: Raspberry Pi 3 B
Power Supply used: Official Raspberry Pi PSU
RetroPie Version Used (eg 3.6, 3.8.1, 4.1 - do not write latest): 4.2
Built From: (Pre made SD Image on RetroPie website, Berryboot, or on top of existing OS etc.. - please provide the filename of any image used): Pre made SD Image on RetroPie website
USB Devices connected: Microsoft keyboard and an Xbox 360 controller
Controller used: Xbox 360 controller
Error messages received: None
Guide used:

("RetroPie: Using MAME bezel overlays with RetroArch")
File: /home/pi/RetroPie/roms/mame-libretro/invaders.zip
Emulator: lr-mame2003

rbaker

@jon987 said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

As far as I'm aware the original Space Invaders arcade machine displayed a black and white picture and used a green overlay at the bottom of the screen

You are correct. I have achieved this effect in Advmame 1.4 by placing the relevant zipped artwork files in:

/home/pi/RetroPie/roms/mame-advmame/artwork

and the samples in

/home/pi/RetroPie/roms/mame-advmame/samples

My system is configured to use the Arcade folder so I have multiple emulators being selected in the background for different games, e.g this one and FBA for CPS etc. Now inside this zip file which must be named exactly the same as your rom, you will find an "art" file. Open this up in notepad and it looks like this:

//	[artname]:
//		file       = [filename]
//		alphafile  = [alphafilename]
//		layer      = [backdrop|overlay|bezel|marquee|panel|side|flyer]
//		position   = [left],[top],[right],[bottom]
//		priority   = [priority]
//		visible    = [visible]
//		alpha      = [alpha]
//		brightness = [brightness]
//

// thanks to Nathan Strum for the backdrop graphics
backdrop:
	file		= invaders.png
	layer		= backdrop
	priority	= -2
	visible		= 1
	position	= 0.0,-0.14,1.29,1.15

// we use an overlay here to change the bright white color used by
// the game down to a more pleasing blue-tinted light gray
// this has the side effect of making the game graphics appear a bit
// transluscent over the backdrop
overlay:
	file		= tintover.png
	alphafile	= tintmask.png
	layer		= overlay
	priority	= -1
	visible		= 1
	position	= 0.0,0.0,1.0,1.0
// graphic work by Nicky Special
// following part of the art file by drkmssh
// http://www.drk-bezel.fr.st
bezel:
	file		= invadbez.png
	alphafile	= invadmask.png
	layer		= bezel
	priority	= 0
	visible		= 1
	position	= -0.3333,-0.8206,1.7179,1.7851
	brightness	= 1.0

You can then tweak for many hours. You can get the green and the moon backdrop with everything else from here. I used this set without the bezel art and enabled scanlines. Looks great. Here is the green in action, this was before the moon was added.

then is it possible to set RetroPie to use lr-mame2010 for Space Invaders and lr-mame2003 for all other ROMs?

This is what the Arcade folder is for. Place multiple arcade rom formats in this folder and select the emulator of your choice using the run command. Very clean.

Jon987

Thanks so much @rbaker !!

However, typically, before I read your reply I found that lr-imame4all manages to run Space Invaders with the green parts included and supports samples. So far so good. But if I discover any issues with it I'll try your solution. It might be the best solution anyway as I understand that lr-mame2003 is the recommended emulator for RetroPie for many reasons.

Thanks again,

Jon

UDb23

@rbaker , @Jon987 This topic has been discussed in the past as I raised a similar question on colors and backdrop.
There are multiple ways to get the original colors.
BTW some versions of Space Invaders were just monochrome and some other had a cellophane applied on the screen to simulate colors (not only green ;-) ).

What is still unsolved (for me at least) is how to get the backdrop (moon) to display correctly (more info here). Retroarch does not support backdrops, just overlays. Placing the moon as an overlays with high transparency as I saw in some video is not an option to me as it doesn't look right.
With lr-mame 2010 you can use current mame overlay standard format that includes backdrops. Unfortunately applying it makes Invaders too slow even on Pi3.

As @rbaker mentioned best option is advmame: you get overlay w backdrop (old mame overlay format) but overlay is not made for 16:9 and you get very small game area.

small invaders

Haven't tested again with advmame 3.1 but 1.4 refused to integer scale the gaming area correctly when using a specifically custom made "full heigh" game area overlay.

Anybody got it right with advmame ?

rbaker

@udb23 it works on my advancemame with that art config as shown above. The moon is part of the zip package.

UDb23

@rbaker It's basically the same as I tested. Any clue how to get the game area full screen?
I mean with a specific overlay, not with the crop option in the mame menu.

rbaker

@udb23 Not sure what you mean. I basically dropped the artwork in that zip but didn't use the bezel and the result is this

UDb23

@rbaker thanks. Did you remove the reference to the "bezel" in the .art file ?
What is the actual display resolution it is using ?

rbaker

@udb23 the art file above is exactly the one copied from my Pi. I shall take a look at the entire zip file and post it back. I think the art file came from the site. I didn't create it. The monitor is a 4:3 screen at 19" the resolution is the advancemame default for the rom.

rbaker

@udb23 Ok, so I have had a look. Here are the settings.

This is the file that I edited after placing the zip packages....

/opt/retropie/configs/mame-advmame/advmame-1.4.rc

I modified these lines:

display_artwork_backdrop yes
display_artwork_bezel no
display_artwork_crop yes
display_artwork_overlay yes

This only works with the old artwork files though.

The contents of my zip are:
invadbez.png
invaders.art
invaders.png
invadmask.png
invadmask0.png
tintmask.png
tintover.png

rbaker

@jon987 said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

I understand that lr-mame2003 is the recommended emulator for RetroPie for many reasons.

Yes but once you realise what effects are possible with other emulators, you will want to use them throughout your arcade experience. For example, if you are playing vector games then you must read this. You will not be disappointed.

Riverstorm

@rbaker said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

@udb23 Ok, so I have had a look. Here are the settings.

This is the file that I edited after placing the zip packages....

/opt/retropie/configs/mame-advmame/advmame-1.4.rc

I modified these lines:
display_artwork_backdrop yes
display_artwork_bezel no
display_artwork_crop yes
display_artwork_overlay yes
This only works with the old artwork files though.

You might know this already but another handy option is you can set it for just a specific game(s) if you don't want to set the same options globally or you can use it to override the global settings too.

invaders/display_artwork_backdrop yes
invaders/display_artwork_bezel no
invaders/display_artwork_crop yes
invaders/display_artwork_overlay yes

I see they have a Depthcharge overlay which is exciting I am going to give it a try. I had no idea one was available.

Riverstorm

@rbaker said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

This only works with the old artwork files though.

Is there a way to tell if it's old or new? Trying Depth Charge (depthch) I can't seem to get the blue overlay, control panel, marquee, basically nothing working just the game in black & white. Space Invaders looks great this way, thanks for this Baker!

rbaker

@riverstorm Well I am not sure about this. However, this is the link to visit:

http://mrdo.mameworld.info/old_artwork.php

I do not know how the files differ or what to look for. At the time of building, I just made sure there were references to the mame version in what artwork I downloaded.

Riverstorm

@rbaker said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

@riverstorm Well I am not sure about this. However, this is the link to visit:

http://mrdo.mameworld.info/old_artwork.php

I do not know how the files differ or what to look for. At the time of building, I just made sure there were references to the mame version in what artwork I downloaded.

Ah ok, Depth Charge has a listing in the main artwork but not the old. It looks like quite a few differences between the two types. I would love to see Depth Charge restored to it's glorious blue overlay and control panel. It such a simple game that has a lot of appeal. :)

UDb23

@riverstorm said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

Trying Depth Charge (depthch)

I made an overlay for Depth Charge months ago:
alt text
It's a Libretro overlay so it works with any lr-mame version.
Blue may not 100% the same as original but on the other hand you get the original side art from the cabinet. No good images of that art existed so I asked an owner (on another forum) of the original cab to take some pictures; that makes it unique ;-)

UDb23

@riverstorm said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

It looks like quite a few differences between the two types

As said previously I researched and tested quite a lot on "Overlay matters" for Retropie.
In the end the best option is to use Retroarch/Libretro overlays (not Mame overlays).
This also gives you exact control on screen resolution and game area size, position and aspect ratio.
The only limitation is you can't have backdrops (images below game), only overlays (images on top).
Concerning Mame overlays the "old" .ART standard format was used until mame .106 (if I remember well); all successive Mame releases require .LAY standard ("new"). The two standards are not exchangeable.
Advamame supports .ART files but seems to fail on some resolution settings. I have not tested w the latest 3.1 advmamem version but have intention to do it soon. Will update on this when I have news.
Edit: forgot to mention: lr-mame2010 requires and supports the "new" .LAY (but tipically makes game too slow)

UDb23

@rbaker said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

The monitor is a 4:3 screen at 19" the resolution is the advancemame default for the rom.

Thanks for checking and letting me know you settings and config.
I get the issues with 16:9 @1080p; as you're 4:3 that's probably the reason it works for you.

Riverstorm

@udb23 said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

I made an overlay for Depth Charge months ago:

Yeah the hue/saturation looks slightly off I suppose you have to eye-ball the color and guess on the RGB value. You have a great eye for art and converting it to overlays! Amazing work! Thank you!

http://mrdo.mameworld.info/mame_artwork/depthch.png

UDb23

@riverstorm said in Original Space Invaders Green Overlay in lr-mame2003:

Yeah the hue/saturation looks slightly off I suppose you have to eye-ball the color and guess on the RGB value

Glad you like it.
Getting the right blue is a little tricky as you choose a "starting" color and then you have to apply significant transparency (to show the game area below) and that changes the resulting color. So the point is finding the right starting color: trial and error.
Even searched for some sort of formula on RGB values... with no success.