mame2003-plus: hundreds of new games, improved input, features, new bugs - now with runahead support

robertvb83

@grant2258 @markwkidd in fact i always used the abandoned classic layout :-)

I really dont think that my usecase is so special! see after all we are talking about emulation of real arcade machines. Of course it is great to be able to use whatever controller you wish but it should also be basic to control this stuff like it was meant to be. With an arcade control panel
arcade panel

of course if you chose an arcade layout like original neogeo you are perfect to go with neo geo and all games up to 4 buttons but you are limited to 4 button games. When i decided to build my arcade machine i wanted it to be suitable for most games, including neogeo and consoles but also 6 Button fighting games. So i ended up with my 6 Button fighting stick. I dont have space to place one dedicated cabinet for each game type in my flat :-)

So i think many people will chose the same layout actually (in fact i know that because i reseached so many projects before i start building this). So i would say this is a pretty standard layout

And i NEVER came to the idea to use the top button row as 123 because these are the buttons for 99% of the arcade games! and i strongly want to use the bottom row primarily because it is way more comfortable if you can rest your hand on the pad. I dont know of anybody that actually uses a cabinet gampad other than sf2 with
123
456
this would only make sense for 6 Buttton games

most would use
345
126
or
345
123

Today i would decide to use an 8 Button layout to use the BOTTOM row as 1234 for 4-button game

btw. if i chose 6-Button subtype for my original SNES controler it feels also not right to have it mapped, nobody uses a SNES gamepad like this, or am i missing something? Who really uses L Button as Button 3 on a SNES PAD?

123
YXL
BAR
456

grant2258

123
YXL
BAR
456
is an arcade panel layout

snes pads have a different physical layout they dont have 3 buttons in a row when you bind in retroach 6 pannel look like this on a snes pad

3         6
l          R
   1 2 
   y x
   b a
   4 5


this is what i mean you want to emulate your snes pad instead of an arcade panel

robertvb83

@grant2258 are you saying it is the meant-to-be control to use
1234
YXLB on a SNES PAD for Metal Slug?

grant2258

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

D for

we are talkin about arcade panels here not control pads they are both different. you talking about control pads or arcade panels robert?

robertvb83

@grant2258 ok i get that, so all subtypes are only meant to be used for arcade panels?

do you get my point that i want my pad as
345
126

robertvb83

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

D for

we are talkin about arcade panels here not control pads they are both different. you talking about control pads or arcade panels robert?

ideally both :-D because i have two arcade panels for players 1 and 2 plus two SNES controllers for players 3 and 4

grant2258

@robertvb83

well snes pads will be mapped like i showed above when you pick 6 panel for snes physical controler

and the arcade is mapped to
123
456
with a 6 panel

arcade panels have the buttons in a row so they can do the 123 a snes pad cant.

look in the options menu you pick retropad type per controller now

@robertvb83 i told mark to name snes to snes/6panel in snes pad it maps like it aalways did in arcade mapping it maps to
123
456

robertvb83

@grant2258 yes i know but none of the types fit to my needs...

i would pretty much use the old classic for my arcade pad AND my SNES controllers
345
YXL
BAR
126

grant2258

@robertvb83 well youll need to speak to mark about adding that option you really dont like original arcade layouts ? It doesnt effect control pads. Ive never seen somone wanted the panels laid out as a gamepad instead of the original layout

robertvb83

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

123
YXL
BAR
456
is an arcade panel layout

snes pads have a different physical layout they dont have 3 buttons in a row when you bind in retroach 6 pannel look like this on a snes pad
3         6
l          R
   1 2 
   y x
   b a
   4 5


this is what i mean you want to emulate your snes pad instead of an arcade panel

why do i have the feeling that i really dont understand. Why was this thing calles SNES type? Who would ever use this for their SNES controller? Just imagine your super mario games on snes, it can only be

5         6
l          R
   34 
   y x
   b a
   12

grant2258

@robertvb83 snes is the sf2 layout for mame on a snes pad i didnt choose it :)

robertvb83

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@robertvb83 well youll need to speak to mark about adding that option you really dont like original arcade layouts ? It doesnt effect control pads. Ive never seen somone wanted the panels laid out as a gamepad instead of the original layout

we need a chatroom grant :-)

i just want to make it very clear, i feel it is hard to get a common understanding

and now im ONLY talking about arcade panel

i like arcade layouts! very much but i want to play one button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
1xx

i like to play 2 button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
12x

i like to play 3 button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
123

i like to play 4 button games (and here i physically HAVE to end arcade in-a-row controls!)
34x
YXL
BAR
12x

i like to play 6 button games
123
YXL
BAR
456

so as you see above the BEST fit to cover them all would be
345
YXL
BAR
123

6 Button fighters would be special and manual

grant2258

@robertvb83 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

@robertvb83 well youll need to speak to mark about adding that option you really dont like original arcade layouts ? It doesnt effect control pads. Ive never seen somone wanted the panels laid out as a gamepad instead of the original layout

we need a chatroom grant :-)

i just want to make it very clear, i feel it is hard to get a common understanding

and now im ONLY talking about arcade panel

i like arcade layouts! very much but i want to play one button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
1xx

i like to play 2 button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
12x

i like to play 3 button games
xxx
YXL
BAR
123

i like to play 4 button games (and here i physically HAVE to end arcade in-a-row controls!)
34x
YXL
BAR
12x

i like to play 6 button games
123
YXL
BAR
456

so as you see above the BEST fit to cover them all would be
345
YXL
BAR
123

6 Button fighters would be special and manual

if that your final option if its ok with mark we can add that for you .

as 6button_retropie. However will adapt to popular demand

the 6 panel
123
456
will remain though for people that want a normal type arcade. That panel you suggested wouldnt suit me for a 6 button i dont use a 6 button other users with 6 buttons can all get together and come up with a retropie 6 button setup then we can do a poll the most popular one get in sound fair?

markwkidd

I honestly find these conversations of button layouts to be very difficult to process cognitively. I get frustrated and I lose mental track of what is where. That is the story of the last month. Thank you all for being persistent and hashing through this complex issue.

"abstractions to abstractions to abstractions" is not really a joke. It's freakin complicated.

grant2258

there is no abstactions here mark its just mame buttons

123
456

markwkidd

@grant2258 said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

there is no abstactions here mark its just mame buttons

123
456

Those are abstractions according to my definition. :pshaw: (Except when the original control board labeled them that way, which of course some did.)

"Roundhouse Kick" is real.. all else is a dream.hehe

robertvb83

@grant2258 thanks man that would be super awesome!

i would not agree to call that a normal arcade layout because real arcade machines only have the number of buttons that the game needs and naturally 6 button arcade machines usually where the sf2 type machines. But if us retro people build arcade machines we need to come up with a one suits all approach and i really think most people would use what i depicted in my previous posting or chose an 8 Button layout with
xxxx
1234
for all games up to 4 buttons and
123x
456x
for those 6 button games.

so even if you would include an 8 button layout you would only need one additional subtype for above described

grant2258

@markwkidd well let the guys in the forum decide on a retopie 6 button we poll it and implement it as a retropie 6 button layout. We have a suggested default and we will have the retropie suggested default too. Seems the fairest way to do it

robertvb83

@grant2258 just think about it controlling metal slug like
123
456
is just insane :-D

@markwkidd said in mame2003-plus: 250 new games, new input system, new features, new bugs:

I honestly find these conversations of button layouts to be very difficult to process cognitively. I get frustrated and I lose mental track of what is where. That is the story of the last month. Thank you all for being persistent and hashing through this complex issue.

"abstractions to abstractions to abstractions" is not really a joke. It's freakin complicated.

haha very well expressed, i also feel that way :-)

btw i would be honored to have my own subtype coded in mame :-D

now i'll have a beer and play some awesome games

grant2258

@robertvb83

meta slug used button abc

in the neogeo arcade thats 123 tht is the button order in the coin op. Just imaging playing it on n arcade instead of a control pad as well meet half way :). I have no objection to making your suggestion the new retropie 6 button standard if no one else has any preferences if they do it will be a poll :) the people will choose the retropie arcade 6 and 8 panel layout and us a default as well sounds fair to me that way everyone gets a say.

so new suggested retropie 6 button arcade layout so far is (mame button numbers)
@robertvb83
345
123

@Riverstorm
456
123

default suggested layout
(reason for the layout its sf2 layout correct and neogeo is accurate up to 3 buttons layout wise)
123
456

8 button layout

my retropie setup suggestion for 8 panel ( notice its not default because it changes punches and kick rows in sf2 )
@grant2258
4 5 6
1 2 3 4
(reason i prefer my main buttons at the bottom to rest my palms on the panel)

suggested default for neo geo/cps/other (currently not set in code)
1 2 3 4
4 5 6

we will add new ideas to this list then poll it

its also worth keeping in mind this is just general default changes per game can still be done or globally so your not stuck to this layout its just a sensible all rounder to fit most games working and this is only arcade panels gamepad controler issues are seperatre you need to specify and arcade panel or gamepad issue