MAME roms not all working

caver01

@moman In addition to @BuZz's reply, I will tell you that it could be a lot of things. To help you narrow the scope, we need a lot more detail from you:

First of all, follow the link BuZz posted above and provide appropriate detail.
What exact emulator are you using? They each have different requirements. By your ROMset version, you really can only expect good results from MAME4All.
What exact ROMs are you trying to run and failing? There are numerous clones that require files from parent ROMs. You really need to have this figured out, or at the very least, understand the details and post exactly what's going on here. Calling out a game title is not the right way to describe the details. Use the MAME compatibility lists, as they will cite parent ROMs.
How do you know you have the ROMset you think you have? Have you done any integrity checking using a tool like CLRMAMEPRO?

Finally, don't get discouraged. None of this is easy. Those of us who are doing it and making it look easy have put in countless hours to understand all of the details. We have been building our systems for years in many cases, and because of that, we have worked through many of the same challenges. Stick with it, as the rewards are worth the effort, but recognize that you will also need to do a fair amount of research to understand how to make your setup work best for you.

dsstrainer

Having a hell of a time with the mame2003 romset.
I downloaded a full Mame 0.161 romset and rebuilt it down to 0.35b7 for lr-imame4all and that has been fine
But I wanted some additional games like Alien vs Pred and some others that weren't supported in that version so I've been trying mame2003. I got the 0.78 dat files from the wiki and everything appears to be rebuilding fine, but almost nothing works. The only ones that work are the ones like Punisher which always work, but even simple games like puckman and outrun (from 1985) won't load at all with mame2003. Oddly I can run those converted games in mame2010 and even fba next sometimes, just not 2003. And outrun is in the compatibility list and marked as OK
But I was able to run a version of outrun with an old version of mame romset (not even sure which version for the GP2x handheld device mame gp2x wiz 2.2 romset and that works fine with mame 2003. So not sure what is going on with it. Going to try to get the latest 0.178 romset and try down converting again.

BuZz

@dsstrainer Please do not post a support request without first reading and following the advice in https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first

dsstrainer

I'm obviously well past that point BuZz... If I'm posting questions, rest assured there are probably real problems.

Anyway, it turns out it was a few issues. I somehow managed to remove some of the parents and clones of certain sets in my main mame 0.161 folder. Interestly, clrmame didn't report them as missing and just created new merged versions with the bits and pieces that it had, which were split sets so they were incomplete. So I restored from my original 161 tarball, only to find that it too is actually missing bits from the file and the dat file, specifically for the outrun game even.
It has outrun.zip, outrunb.zip but missing outruna.zip
The mame 0.78 dat file requires outruna.zip

Running a clrmamepro scan of the 0.161 doesn't flag anything because the dat file doesn't reference outruna so there is no mismatch. But when I rebuild as merged sets to 0.78, clrmamepro doesn't catch that there is a missing outruna file, and a scan afterwards also doesn't catch it. Perhaps because it is a merged file and it loses track of its references. But I would think that during the initial merge from the split 0.161 set, clrmamepro should have flagged something that when it reads outruna in the 0.78 dat file, but the outruna file doesn't exist, it shouldn't try to merge outrun and outrunb and pass it off as a finished file. If I grab an outruna from another romset, and put it into the source folder and then rebuild it, it rebuilds correctly merging all 3 files.

So while I know clrmame is proven, It might have an issue here... perhaps with the conversion from split to merged and missing an intermediate clone, which might be a very small subset of roms which could be why it has gone unnoticed. I'll play more with it. Also going to grab the 0.181 rom set and see what it has for outrun

mediamogul

@dsstrainer said in MAME roms not all working:

If I'm posting questions, rest assured there are probably real problems.

It's not that anyone is judging the legitimacy or severity of your problems. It's that without following the guidelines detailed in that link, no one will know enough about your issue or basic setup to give any kind of meaningful help.

herb_fargus

@mediamogul and as he mentioned it was due to his misunderstanding of how mame ROMs work rather than an actual issue as is the case with 99% of all posts about mame.

dankcushions

@dsstrainer my advice is forget clrmamepro and just get the 0.78 set. there's almost certainly a way to get clrmamepro to do what you want it to do, but it's not always obvious, and we can't really support you in it beyond what's already written in the guide.

i personally think the clrmamepro stuff should be probably less prominent in the wiki, or in a separate section. full romsets are so widespread.

mediamogul

@dankcushions said in MAME roms not all working:

i personally think the clrmamepro stuff should be probably less prominent in the wiki, or in a separate section. full romsets are so widespread.

I can get a rom set built to about 95-99% complete, but even following the letter of the law, I've never had perfect results. I've relied on prebuilt full rom sets for some time now as a result. However, I still always scan them against a dat file to check for completion.

synack

@mediamogul said in MAME roms not all working:

I can get a rom set built to about 95-99% complete, but even following the letter of the law, I've never had perfect results.

You may already be aware, but one overlooked detail when building previous ROM sets is the fact that you must use the "rollback" ROM set in conjunction with a newer set of ROMs to properly rebuild.

I haven't had any issues when building 0.37b5, 0.78, and 0.94 from 0.181 with the rollback set.

mediamogul

@synack

I've always used rollback sets in the past, but I do acknowledge that whatever the issue, it was of my own making in some way. I should really reexamine the process sometime and get a hold of it fully.

BuZz

@dsstrainer said in MAME roms not all working:

I'm obviously well past that point BuZz... If I'm posting questions, rest assured there are probably real problems.

Then you didn't read the link as it mentions opening a new thread rather than posting to an old one as well as details you should provide, which you didn't. I wasn't suggesting your problem wasn't real, but that you didn't follow the instructions.

PetroRie

@dsstrainer I had the same problem with mame2003 with some NeoGeo games. Now I'm using lr-fba-next which requires a newer romset and all the NeoGeo games work now. There is one MAME game I really want to play but it doesn't work on this emulator. I'm thinking to update the emulator and get the newer romset.

barbudreadmon

@dankcushions said in MAME roms not all working:

i personally think the clrmamepro stuff should be probably less prominent in the wiki, or in a separate section. full romsets are so widespread.

libretro-fbalpha support 4 games which are missing from the official fbalpha release, they are included in the dat on libretro-fbalpha's github.

Riverstorm

I know most of the sets are static but at least one is fairly current. It's definitely useful to understand how ClrMamePro works. It allows you to be current with a smaller incremental set update that comes out every few months and the ability to verify. It may also be used for more than just MAME ROM sets like other platforms, DOS games, etc. Basically any files or sets that have a DAT created it's very useful. It's fairly heavily documented on several sites in writing and video too.

Depending on which options you have checked (missing, case, unneeded, name, size & date) ROM set files may end up in the backup folder on the first run which needs to be taken into account when rebuilding by adding it as an add path.

With the Rollback ROM set and the current version it should be 100% every time. ClrMamePro has been around so long you really only see obscure errors like padding and nul characters in the archive that throw off the CRC, directory structure, hash collision errors or something weird along those lines once in a while. Possibly challenges with new features being added to the software but really it's a stable piece of software that works reliably.

PetroRie

@Riverstorm said in MAME roms not all working:

but really it's a stable piece of software that works reliably.

I was just wondering, how do they create those new romsets? Do they recompile everything or do they just use clrmamepro to update them to the newest romset?

I never understood this, why do you need to "update" them to the newer set? Why couldn't they just update the emulator only and support the older versions? Wouldn't that just make more sense? And if you update them what does clrmamepro do to the rom? Does it patch the files?

dankcushions

@PetroRie typically, each version of mame contains a few more games, MAYBE a few updated roms. if you're using a current mame romset you will almost definitely be able to use it in the next version without any real issue, unless you want to play one of those new games.

I was just wondering, how do they create those new romsets? Do they recompile everything or do they just use clrmamepro to update them to the newest romset?

mame itself generates the dat files. clrmamepro is nothing to do with mamedev.

synack

@PetroRie said in MAME roms not all working:

I never understood this, why do you need to "update" them to the newer set? Why couldn't they just update the emulator only and support the older versions?

This page is worth a read, especially the 'history of roms' section
http://docs.mamedev.org/usingmame/aboutromsets.html

The short answer is that over time, they discovered new information about these old systems and in order to preserve them properly, they need to adjust the roms themselves.

Riverstorm

@PetroRie said in MAME roms not all working:

I was just wondering, how do they create those new romsets? Do they recompile everything or do they just use clrmamepro to update them to the newest romset?

I'm not quite sure how to explain it. Under that link Synack provided there's a section "Troubleshooting your ROM sets and the history of ROMs" gives several reasons why the individual ROM files in each game archive set change from version to version. Yes I believe they accommodate the new changes (replace bad file dumps with good file dumps, name changes, etc.) in the source and compile. Once compiled you may generate a DAT from the command line.

"mame -listinfo > mame036b.dat"

MAME I believe is more about preservation and accuracy so it's constantly changing as they discover new things about arcade machines or new methods to accurately extract information from the PCB chips, maybe emulation accuracy or different ways to organize and name the ROM files.

I never understood this, why do you need to "update" them to the newer set? Why couldn't they just update the emulator only and support the older versions?

As an example maybe they couldn't extract and decrypt the information from a certain PCB chip 10 years ago, maybe a clean dump wasn't available at the time, maybe they wanted to rename the entire chipset of files from the PCB for accuracy reasons. As new information and techniques become available they incorporate it into MAME. They add new games and update old ones with more accuracy but they don't keep all prior versions in the code so they can run.

I think the spin is they are more focused on preservation and the fact we can actually play games with the correct PCB chip dumps is a "by-product".

I remember when CHD's were going through a lot of structural changes. It was kind of painful running chdman all the time to convert the CHD's before joining a torrent at the highest possible percentage as some are ratio sites.

Wouldn't that just make more sense? And if you update them what does clrmamepro do to the rom? Does it patch the files?

That's why when mame4all-pi needs a 0.36 ROM set it's very exact in the files it contains and needs to run games. If a file is missing, changed or incorrectly named when MAME is launched for a specific game it will crash.

Every version of MAME calls for very specific files down to the byte and they need to be named exact in the correct zip file (depending on set type). The files/games may or may not change between versions hence some games still work after a new version release.

In essence in each new version they are upgrading to newer, better or more accurate files basically. The source of all files/games we play are from PCB chips, cassette tapes, hard disks, floppy disks, etc. Basically all the different media types that were used in arcade machines through the years. I would say they are more replaced by newer/different versions as they become available to the MAME team rather than patched.

If you like a certain version or you find a version that runs all the games you would like to play stick with it. You can create DAT files all the way back to version 0.1 (some do require you're running a 32-bit OS) which will be 20 years old next month I believe. I jumped on the band wagon as soon as Donkey Kong was supported some time in the late 90's.

The project was started by a programmer named Nicola Salmoria. Over the past two decades it has had several project leads. A name that pops into mind is Aaron Giles who ran as the lead for years. Not quite sure who's leading it now. I suppose the project takes different turns with different leads as I have no idea how the internal structure works and who is calling the shots but really it's supported by thousands of developers and contributors world wide.

ClrMamePro does basically 4 things it will add, remove, rename or move a file and that's pretty much it's core. It's a ROM/file management utility that is completely developed and separate from the MAME team. It does get a bit more complicated with different set types but it basically organizes and groups the individual files into zip files to be used with MAME.

barbudreadmon

@PetroRie said in MAME roms not all working:

I never understood this, why do you need to "update" them to the newer set? Why couldn't they just update the emulator only and support the older versions?

When a game can't be dumped properly, they add hacks to mame/fba to be able to play the rom anyway (or at least they try when they can). When they dump the game properly, they remove the hacks. If they kept 20 years of hack inside the game driver, things would probably get messy and slower.

dsstrainer

@BuZz Yea I know a lot of forums hate necroposting but I disagree so I will do it anyway. It is illogical to have bits of data on the same topic spread across multiple threads when it could all be put into one location. Anti-necroposters should reevaluate their life. I didn't actually ask a question, I was just discussing.. sometimes putting thoughts down to read later helps you to realize the issue, and perhaps others as well.

In conclusion to my issue, it is still unclear why outrun is not working when I rebuild the 0.161 version to 0.78. But most other games are working fine. I was able to run a 0.102 version of the outrun rom successfully (which includes the missing outruna files). But I was not aware of this "Rollback" option so that may be the key. Or as others have said just download a 0.78 romset (Assuming they did it right).