Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.

AdamBeGood

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@adambegood

Looks like we made quite some progress here.

Would be nice if you could make a summarize in your first post on what we discovered in this thread ?

Let me do this when I am on a computer next, but I’ll do that.

DTEAM

@adambegood

Mame standalone, Lr-Mess and lr-FBNeo are, for me, the best 3 emulators for Coleco. If you are using the FBNeo romset, you will be able to run those emulators and run "Mame Cheat Codes" . Why MAME Standalone: because controllers are really easy to set like you want.

Folly

@dteam said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@adambegood

Mame standalone, Lr-Mess and lr-FBNeo are, for me, the best 3 emulators for Coleco. If you are using the FBNeo romset, you will be able to run those emulators and run "Mame Cheat Codes" . Why MAME Standalone: because controllers are really easy to set like you want.

Indeed, we never looked at those emu's from the start,
and for sure, I had to know haha. 😊
But indeed you have good arguments. 👍

cheat codes
easy controller setup

We will look at MAME and lr-mess too.

Folly

I did some tests but it seems some FBNeo roms are still 32kb files, like black onyx.
These files are zipped, so I had no idea this one was 32kb.
So I discovered that this version works also on lr-bluemsx.

I did some tests too with MAME/lr-mess but it seems I used the 32kb version.
So I removed the post I had written about this.

Based on the "thread issue" it seems that perhaps we are, unintentional, drifting away from what the point was.
Running 64kb+ roms on the emulators.

We have to take a second look at this now !

Folly

I have done some FBNeo-romset unpacking to discover the big roms.
The ones with the sgm in the name are big ones that can be tested.

So I tested dlairsgm.zip with FBNeo, and this worked !
Doesn't work when unpacked though !

Also tested this rom with MAME, the rom boots but I get this screen later on :

@DTEAM,
Can you run the 64kb+ games on MAME/lr-mess ?

barbudreadmon

@folly yes, FBNeo supports "Super Game Module" games, i don't know how many other coleco emulators does. I remember support for those games was pretty rare when we implemented it 2 years ago. Since this SGM stuff is kinda a hack on original hardware, it might be against MAME policy to add it ?

DTEAM

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@DTEAM,
Can you run the 64kb+ games on MAME/lr-mess ?

For dlair, I'm able to go here, but no further with lr-mess

lr-mess-cmd = "/opt/retropie/emulators/retroarch/bin/retroarch --config /opt/retropie/configs/coleco/retroarch.cfg -v -L /opt/retropie/libretrocores/lr-mess/mess_libretro.so %ROM%"

AdamBeGood

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@adambegood

Looks like we made quite some progress here.

Would be nice if you could make a summarize in your first post on what we discovered in this thread ?

I've done that now :)

Folly

@dteam @AdamBeGood @barbudreadmon

For those who have no idea, this is how we install ColecoVision for MAME and lr-mess with our module-script generator :

Generate the module-scripts for Coleco ( Install MAME and lr-mess first !) :

curl "https://raw.githubusercontent.com/FollyMaddy/RetroPie-Share/main/00-scripts-00/generate-systems-lr-mess_mame-2v0-alpha.sh" | bash -s coleco

And install the -cart1 and the -cmd module-scripts in the RetroPie-Setup.
Place BIOS in : /home/pi/RetroPie/BIOS/mame/coleco.zip

For the system "Coleco" I had no luck with the lr-mess-cmd and mame-cmd.
I used these lines running the normal roms or the FBNeo roms (zipped or not zipped) :

lr-mess-system-coleco-cart = "/home/pi/RetroPie-Setup/scriptmodules/run_mess.sh /opt/retropie/emulators/retroarch/bin/retroarch /opt/retropie/libretrocores/lr-mess/mess_libretro.so /opt/retropie/configs/coleco/retroarch.cfg \coleco /home/pi/RetroPie/BIOS/mame -autoframeskip -cart %ROM%"
mame-system-coleco-cart = "/opt/retropie/emulators/mame/mame -v -c coleco -cart %ROM%"

But with these I get the error screen from post 35 !

This made me wonder why don't I use the system "Adam" (Coleco Adam) for this rom.
So I generated the module-scripts for adam :

Generate the module-scripts for Adam (Coleco Adam) ( Install MAME and lr-mess first !) :

curl "https://raw.githubusercontent.com/FollyMaddy/RetroPie-Share/main/00-scripts-00/generate-systems-lr-mess_mame-2v0-alpha.sh" | bash -s adam

And install the -cart1 and the -cmd module-scripts in the RetroPie-Setup.
Place BIOS in : /home/pi/RetroPie/BIOS/mame/coleco.zip (Adam seems to use the same file)

Using the system "Adam" I can run dlairsgm.zip or dragon-s-lair-2012.romnow from the coleco rom directory, using :
(edit : updated my script, adam is now recognised as colecovision, that way it is using the coleco rom directory now !)

lr-mess-system-adam-cart1 = "/home/pi/RetroPie-Setup/scriptmodules/run_mess.sh 
/opt/retropie/emulators/retroarch/bin/retroarch /opt/retropie/libretrocores/lr-mess/mess_libretro.so /opt/retropie/configs/adam/retroarch.cfg \adam /home/pi/RetroPie/BIOS/mame -autoframeskip -cart1 %ROM%"
mame-system-adam-cart1 = "/opt/retropie/emulators/mame/mame -v -c adam -cart1 %ROM%"

Turns out not all 64kb+ roms will run in Adam, see list 41

Folly

@AdamBeGood

Don't know if you use the correct information in your first post.
More investigation has to done on what openMSX actually uses !

For openMSX I used the normal one :

pi@raspberrypi:~/RetroPie/BIOS $ sha1sum coleco.rom
45bedc4cbdeac66c7df59e9e599195c778d86a92  coleco.rom

The same as (lr-bluemsx directory):

pi@raspberrypi:~/RetroPie/BIOS/Machines/COL - ColecoVision $ sha1sum *
45bedc4cbdeac66c7df59e9e599195c778d86a92  coleco.rom

This one is different (lr-bluemsx directory) :

pi@raspberrypi:~/RetroPie/BIOS/Machines/COL - ColecoVision w Super Game Module $ sha1sum *
ec9cdc3f1deffe9421415ebcb4bc7125ab081726  BIOS_XP.ROM

I did some more investigation, seems both systems use the same normal coleco.rom :

pi@raspberrypi:~/RetroPie/BIOS $ /opt/retropie/emulators/openmsx/bin/openmsx -machine "ColecoVision"
progress: Searching for file with sha1sum 45bedc4cbdeac66c7df59e9e599195c778d86a92...

/opt/retropie/emulators/openmsx/bin/openmsx -machine "ColecoVision_SGM"
progress: Searching for file with sha1sum 45bedc4cbdeac66c7df59e9e599195c778d86a92...

Turns out we just can use :
/home/pi/RetroPie/BIOS/openmsx/machines/colecovision/coleco.rom
No need for :
/home/pi/RetroPie/BIOS/openmsx/machines/colecovision_sgm/<the rom file>

Folly

Here is a list of all 64kb+ roms here, made by me.
It's made to make a good comparison on what works, on what emulator, using the same rom crc32 checksums :

black-onyx-the-2013 - dddd1396
- lr-mess (adam) : Expansion Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : blackonyx.zip : ok
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
boxxle-2015 - 62dacf07
- lr-mess (adam) : Expansion Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : boots but has eprom failure error O
- FBNeo : boxxle.zip : ok
ghostbusters-2018 - fc935cdd
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : Expansion Module error O
- FBNeo : ghostbst.zip : ok (cannot pass inserting numbers for account/new account, "key 0" not found yet) => link_to_quick_solution
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
MarioBros (2008) (CollectorVision) - 2e09af0a
- lr-mess (adam) : ok (adding credit's works using "numkey 5")
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok (adding credit's seems in a strange place, works using "key g")
- FBNeo : mario.zip : ok (adding credit's seems in a strange place, not found yet) => link_to_quick_solution
mario-brothers-2009 - 11777b27
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : Expansion Module error O
- FBNeo : mariob.zip : ok (adding credit's seems in a strange place, not found yet) => link_to_quick_solution
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
children-of-the-night-2018 - 55b36d53
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : (cotn.zip) : ok
deep-dungeon-adventure-2017 - 77900970
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : deepdngadv.zip : ok
Donkey_Kong_Jr_SGM - 644124f6
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : dkongjrsgm.zip : ok
Donkey_Kong_SGM - b3e62471
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : dkongsgm.zip : ok
goonies-the-2012 - 01581fa8
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : goonies.zip : ok
knightmare-2015 - 01cacd0d
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : kngtmare.zip : ok
kung-fu-master-2016 - a078f273
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : ? have different 128kb version -> 441693fd <--
  (not updated by @barbudreadmon) --> link_to_reason
kungfumstr_sgm - 441693fd
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : kungfumstr.zip : ok
mecha-8-2013 - 53da40bc
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : mecha8.zip : ok
pac-man-collection-2008 - f3ccacb3
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : pacmancol.zip : ok
qbiqs-2019 - ee530ad2
- lr-mess (adam) : ok but no y-.... detected so no ingame music
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : qbiqs.zip : ok
secret-of-the-moai-2018 - b753a8ca
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : moai.zip : ok
spelunker-2015 - 75f84889
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : spelunker.zip : ok
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
subroc-super-game-2014 - eac71b43
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : subrocsgm.zip : ok
super-space-acer-2011 - ae209065
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : suprspac.zip : ok
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
the-stone-of-wisdom-2015 - 342c73ca
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : ? have different 128kb version -> ba2e3fea <--
  (not updated by @barbudreadmon) --> link_to_reason
Stone of Wisdom (2015) (Team Pixelboy) - ba2e3fea
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : stonew.zip : ok
thexder-2012 - 09e3fdda
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : thexder.zip : ok
twinbee-2014 - e7e07a70
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : twinbee.zip : ok
uridium-2019 - bc8320a0
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : uridium.zip : ok
zaxxon-super-game-2012 - a5a90f63
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : zaxxonsgm.zip : ok
zombie-incident-2018 - 8027dad7
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : zombieinc.zip : ok
zombie-near-2012 - c36c017e
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : zombnear.zip : ok
  (I could not test, but should be ok)
zombie-near-2012 - c89d281d
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : zombnearb.zip : ok
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
buck-rogers-super-game-2013 - c4f1a85a
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : buckrogsgm.zip : ok
dragon-s-lair-2012 - 12ceee08
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : dlairsgm.zip : ok
gauntlet-2019 - 652d533e
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : gauntlet.zip : ok
mecha-9-2016 - b405591a
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : mecha9.zip : ok
princess-quest-2012 - a59eaa2b
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : pquest.zip : ok
Tank Mission (CollectorVision)(2017) - d0f37969
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : tankmission.zip : ok
wizard-of-wor-2018 - d9207f30
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : wow.zip : ok

Conclusions :

lr-mess(adam) : 25/36 work
- can load normal roms and from FBNeo rom-sets (with this setup)
MAME(adam): not tested but should have the same results as lr-mess(adam)
openMSX : 33/36 work
- can load normal roms and from FBNeo rom-sets
FBNeo : 34/36 work
- can only load from FBNeo rom-sets (with this setup)
- using coleco num-pad key's can be an issue sometimes
- do a source-code install, in RetroPie-Setup, to play the updated games
- the source code installation of FBNeo takes about 25 minutes on a pi4
- for the source code installation, the supported games can be found in the latest dat file : link_to_dat_file
Coolcv :
- closed source
- doesn't work yet on the pi4
Sound of FBNeo VS openMSX :
- FBNeo has better sound than openMSX
- The audio of openMSX is acceptable though

AdamBeGood

@folly I updated the top post. Don't all games work with openmsx? I am not sure what doesn't.

Folly

@adambegood said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@folly I updated the top post. Don't all games work with openmsx? I am not sure what doesn't.

That is what I wanted to know too.
I completed the list for lr-mess and openMSX.

barbudreadmon

@folly out of curiosity i was looking at openmsx code, nothing unusual with the sound on sgm games ? i see their ay8910 emulation is based on very old mame code (mame 0.37), not sure how good this sound chip emulation was at the time.

AdamBeGood

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@adambegood said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@folly I updated the top post. Don't all games work with openmsx? I am not sure what doesn't.

That is what I wanted to know too.
I completed the list for lr-mess and openMSX.

Cool, I'll double check the openMSX problem ROMs on my Pi tomorrow.

Great work here, so thorough!

I'll also keep an ear out for any sound issues with SGM games, as per the @barbudreadmon comment

Folly

@barbudreadmon said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@folly out of curiosity i was looking at openmsx code, nothing unusual with the sound on sgm games ? i see their ay8910 emulation is based on very old mame code (mame 0.37), not sure how good this sound chip emulation was at the time.

Good point.
Earlier on it seemed ok, though.
I will have a second look at the sound.
I had to move my computer, so I made the list without the sound, assuming it was ok.

barbudreadmon

@folly some words about FBNeo and consoles/computers support : we'll basically accept any request for games we are missing on an already emulated system, so feel free to open a topic about it at https://neo-source.com/index.php?board=19.0
On a sidenote, i just added support for spelunker and super space acer after looking at your list. For the different rom versions on a few games i don't know, but if you open a topic at our forum and explain why the other version is better i'm sure it'll get support.

Folly

@barbudreadmon

I am making that list to make a really good comparison, so we know what we are talking about.
It's nice to know it already helps to improve the dat list.
I am not finished yet, so we will see how it evolves.

While testing I found that the audio of FBNeo is indeed a bit better than openMSX.

Thanks for the info.

Folly

@AdamBeGood

I have finished the list, it seems there isn't much to add anymore.
If we want them all to work in FBNeo we should discuss this and add a topic like
@barbudreadmon said.

barbudreadmon

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

FBNeo : for now, 30 work out of 36

I did some research :

the blackonyx version we previously supported was probably a prototype without eeprom support, so i replaced it (maybe i should have kept it as a clone, idk) by the 64k version with eeprom support
i added support for Ghostbusters, we didn't have this one (the 2x8k game you mentioned is Gust Busters, a totally different game)
the mario version we support is the 128k "Rev D Final Edition", which i think is the paid version of the game, i believe the one we didn't support is the 64k free edition, i added it as a clone (i named it mariob)

I still need to look into the other ones (we got a 32k version of zombie near btw), help is welcome ;)