Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.

Folly

Here is a list of all 64kb+ roms here, made by me.
It's made to make a good comparison on what works, on what emulator, using the same rom crc32 checksums :

black-onyx-the-2013 - dddd1396
- lr-mess (adam) : Expansion Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : blackonyx.zip : ok
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
boxxle-2015 - 62dacf07
- lr-mess (adam) : Expansion Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : boots but has eprom failure error O
- FBNeo : boxxle.zip : ok
ghostbusters-2018 - fc935cdd
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : Expansion Module error O
- FBNeo : ghostbst.zip : ok (cannot pass inserting numbers for account/new account, "key 0" not found yet) => link_to_quick_solution
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
MarioBros (2008) (CollectorVision) - 2e09af0a
- lr-mess (adam) : ok (adding credit's works using "numkey 5")
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok (adding credit's seems in a strange place, works using "key g")
- FBNeo : mario.zip : ok (adding credit's seems in a strange place, not found yet) => link_to_quick_solution
mario-brothers-2009 - 11777b27
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : Expansion Module error O
- FBNeo : mariob.zip : ok (adding credit's seems in a strange place, not found yet) => link_to_quick_solution
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
children-of-the-night-2018 - 55b36d53
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : (cotn.zip) : ok
deep-dungeon-adventure-2017 - 77900970
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : deepdngadv.zip : ok
Donkey_Kong_Jr_SGM - 644124f6
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : dkongjrsgm.zip : ok
Donkey_Kong_SGM - b3e62471
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : dkongsgm.zip : ok
goonies-the-2012 - 01581fa8
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : goonies.zip : ok
knightmare-2015 - 01cacd0d
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : kngtmare.zip : ok
kung-fu-master-2016 - a078f273
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : ? have different 128kb version -> 441693fd <--
  (not updated by @barbudreadmon) --> link_to_reason
kungfumstr_sgm - 441693fd
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : kungfumstr.zip : ok
mecha-8-2013 - 53da40bc
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : mecha8.zip : ok
pac-man-collection-2008 - f3ccacb3
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : pacmancol.zip : ok
qbiqs-2019 - ee530ad2
- lr-mess (adam) : ok but no y-.... detected so no ingame music
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : qbiqs.zip : ok
secret-of-the-moai-2018 - b753a8ca
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : moai.zip : ok
spelunker-2015 - 75f84889
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : spelunker.zip : ok
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
subroc-super-game-2014 - eac71b43
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : subrocsgm.zip : ok
super-space-acer-2011 - ae209065
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : suprspac.zip : ok
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
the-stone-of-wisdom-2015 - 342c73ca
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : ? have different 128kb version -> ba2e3fea <--
  (not updated by @barbudreadmon) --> link_to_reason
Stone of Wisdom (2015) (Team Pixelboy) - ba2e3fea
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : stonew.zip : ok
thexder-2012 - 09e3fdda
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : thexder.zip : ok
twinbee-2014 - e7e07a70
- lr-mess (adam) : Requires Super Game Module error M
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : twinbee.zip : ok
uridium-2019 - bc8320a0
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : uridium.zip : ok
zaxxon-super-game-2012 - a5a90f63
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : zaxxonsgm.zip : ok
zombie-incident-2018 - 8027dad7
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : zombieinc.zip : ok
zombie-near-2012 - c36c017e
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : zombnear.zip : ok
  (I could not test, but should be ok)
zombie-near-2012 - c89d281d
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : zombnearb.zip : ok
  (updated by @barbudreadmon, use the source code install of FBNeo)
buck-rogers-super-game-2013 - c4f1a85a
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : buckrogsgm.zip : ok
dragon-s-lair-2012 - 12ceee08
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : dlairsgm.zip : ok
gauntlet-2019 - 652d533e
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : gauntlet.zip : ok
mecha-9-2016 - b405591a
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : mecha9.zip : ok
princess-quest-2012 - a59eaa2b
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : pquest.zip : ok
Tank Mission (CollectorVision)(2017) - d0f37969
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : tankmission.zip : ok
wizard-of-wor-2018 - d9207f30
- lr-mess (adam) : ok
- openMSX (ColecoVision_SGM) : ok
- FBNeo : wow.zip : ok

Conclusions :

lr-mess(adam) : 25/36 work
- can load normal roms and from FBNeo rom-sets (with this setup)
MAME(adam): not tested but should have the same results as lr-mess(adam)
openMSX : 33/36 work
- can load normal roms and from FBNeo rom-sets
FBNeo : 34/36 work
- can only load from FBNeo rom-sets (with this setup)
- using coleco num-pad key's can be an issue sometimes
- do a source-code install, in RetroPie-Setup, to play the updated games
- the source code installation of FBNeo takes about 25 minutes on a pi4
- for the source code installation, the supported games can be found in the latest dat file : link_to_dat_file
Coolcv :
- closed source
- doesn't work yet on the pi4
Sound of FBNeo VS openMSX :
- FBNeo has better sound than openMSX
- The audio of openMSX is acceptable though

AdamBeGood

@folly I updated the top post. Don't all games work with openmsx? I am not sure what doesn't.

Folly

@adambegood said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@folly I updated the top post. Don't all games work with openmsx? I am not sure what doesn't.

That is what I wanted to know too.
I completed the list for lr-mess and openMSX.

barbudreadmon

@folly out of curiosity i was looking at openmsx code, nothing unusual with the sound on sgm games ? i see their ay8910 emulation is based on very old mame code (mame 0.37), not sure how good this sound chip emulation was at the time.

AdamBeGood

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@adambegood said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@folly I updated the top post. Don't all games work with openmsx? I am not sure what doesn't.

That is what I wanted to know too.
I completed the list for lr-mess and openMSX.

Cool, I'll double check the openMSX problem ROMs on my Pi tomorrow.

Great work here, so thorough!

I'll also keep an ear out for any sound issues with SGM games, as per the @barbudreadmon comment

Folly

@barbudreadmon said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

@folly out of curiosity i was looking at openmsx code, nothing unusual with the sound on sgm games ? i see their ay8910 emulation is based on very old mame code (mame 0.37), not sure how good this sound chip emulation was at the time.

Good point.
Earlier on it seemed ok, though.
I will have a second look at the sound.
I had to move my computer, so I made the list without the sound, assuming it was ok.

barbudreadmon

@folly some words about FBNeo and consoles/computers support : we'll basically accept any request for games we are missing on an already emulated system, so feel free to open a topic about it at https://neo-source.com/index.php?board=19.0
On a sidenote, i just added support for spelunker and super space acer after looking at your list. For the different rom versions on a few games i don't know, but if you open a topic at our forum and explain why the other version is better i'm sure it'll get support.

Folly

@barbudreadmon

I am making that list to make a really good comparison, so we know what we are talking about.
It's nice to know it already helps to improve the dat list.
I am not finished yet, so we will see how it evolves.

While testing I found that the audio of FBNeo is indeed a bit better than openMSX.

Thanks for the info.

Folly

@AdamBeGood

I have finished the list, it seems there isn't much to add anymore.
If we want them all to work in FBNeo we should discuss this and add a topic like
@barbudreadmon said.

barbudreadmon

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

FBNeo : for now, 30 work out of 36

I did some research :

the blackonyx version we previously supported was probably a prototype without eeprom support, so i replaced it (maybe i should have kept it as a clone, idk) by the 64k version with eeprom support
i added support for Ghostbusters, we didn't have this one (the 2x8k game you mentioned is Gust Busters, a totally different game)
the mario version we support is the 128k "Rev D Final Edition", which i think is the paid version of the game, i believe the one we didn't support is the 64k free edition, i added it as a clone (i named it mariob)

I still need to look into the other ones (we got a 32k version of zombie near btw), help is welcome ;)

Folly

@barbudreadmon

That is really great. 👍😊

I will have a look at it again tomorrow.

barbudreadmon

@folly when you have a doubt about where a button is mapped, check retroarch's Quick Menu > Controls. Coleco mapping to a modern pad is indeed a problem, too many buttons, so i have to make use of everything available on the pad, this include shoulders buttons, triggers buttons, and even analog sticks. You can remap everything to your liking through that menu though.

I wouldn't mind making default per-game optimal layouts for coleco games, where all important buttons for the specific game are in easy to access places, but only if someone is willing to help me by making those lists of important button :).

For now :

mario's credit is 5, which is mapped to L2
0 is mapped to right analog's left

I looked into zombie near this morning, the 128k version is an older version of the game (2011), see http://www.colecovision.dk/oscar-toledo.htm . Since both games are quite different (128k version has different palette and title screen, the character is also moving faster), i'll add the older version as a clone.

Folly

@barbudreadmon

Good info on your side !

I will try that.

barbudreadmon

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

kung-fu-master-2016 - a078f273

I won't add this one, it's actually from 2015 (see title screen), probably a prototype, and apart from the game having a major bug (the character is invincible ?), i can't notice anything different about it. It doesn't seem worth keeping.

barbudreadmon

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

the-stone-of-wisdom-2015 - 342c73ca

I won't add that one either, the only difference between the 2 roms is on the last few bytes (from $0001FF81 to $0001FFA0), i suspect it is only a story of digital signature and retail/free version. It doesn't seem worth having both, nor replacing the one we currently support, except if someone proves me wrong.

Support for the older 128k zombie near version was added (zombnearb, clone of zombnear). I believe that closes the case of missing FBNeo coleco romsets that seem worth keeping.

Folly

I did an update on my generator script, used in post_39 for "lr-mess (adam)"/"mame (adam)".
Now the roms can be started from the normal coleco rom directory.
BTW : You have to do a new adam install.

Folly

I updated the last part in the list.

Not expected, but really, we did a ton of work here ;-)

Now we can run quite some titles on the PI4.

I am quite satisfied now.
But If we want to, there are a few things that still can be done :

We can try to improve game specific controller setting for the problematic "coleco keypad" games (FBNeo)
add openMSX in RetroPie as an emulator for ColecoVision and ColecoVision_SGM
improve game compatibility for openMSX
improve the game compatibility for lr-mess/MAME

Nice, together we have done a really good job here !

Folly

@barbudreadmon

In the first post @AdamBeGood talked about Flappy.
It's a 32kb rom, but it seems it's not in the dat list.

5ac80811 flapee-byrd-2014.rom

Not sure, but I think there are much more missing.

Do I have to do some more checking for you ?

barbudreadmon

@folly "Flapee Byrd" added, feel free to suggest any other coleco game we are missing.

DTEAM

@folly said in Colecovision Start-Up Error: Turn Game Off Before Inserting Cartridge or Expansion Module.:

Not sure, but I think there are much more missing.

Flappe Byrd is in the Homebrew list
https://cvaddict.com/list.php?filter=3

but not in the filtred list for Super Game Module see:
https://cvaddict.com/list.php?filter=8