Setting up a Ipac2

caver01

but mame2010 solves the issue?

It may have been solved by accident because of the way inputs are programmed. According to this post from a while ago, Dank thinks the devs avoided the issue in 2010 by abstracting all inputs to a virtual keyboard instead of via virtual gamepads alongside raw keys. I have only done a few things in 2010 to test ROMs that fail in others. Performance is better in 2003 for sure.

Is Arcade a lot of work?

It can be at first, but for me the benefits far outweigh the config tracking. You need to keep a list somewhere of which ROMs come from which sets. Otherwise, you have a big mess on your hands. When I had ROMs in their separate folders I knew what sets were being used. I have my own version of one of the compatibility lists where I added columns for my own tracking. This helps me remember which romset I am using for each ROM in the Arcade folder.

Like you, the upgrade or rebuild process streamlined with a backup of the configs folder and roms folder, and maybe even easier because I only need to grab one arcade ROM folder.

It has been interesting to see which ROMs have changed from set to set. I will often just try a rom in another emulator before replacing it with one from the proper set. As a result of starting with Advmame a long while back, many of the live ROMs are .106 on my system. They work, but if I am ever troubleshooting, I get the right one. This is why you have to maintain a list.

With Toobin, I just setup a tankstick using <CODE_NOT> . I probably need to change to buttons though since that is what the orignal arcade machine used. Still, inside the GUI menu, the inputs are LEFT UP, LEFT DOWN, RIGHT UP, RIGHT DOWN just like a tank, so I just went with my tankstick mapping. But now I wonder what happens if you press both left buttons? Does the player move right? You cannot push both up and down on the same side at the same time with a joystick!

My Qbert mapping is perhaps different than most, since I play on the vertical ends of my cocktail cabinet so the joysticks are rotated. But, you can do it easily just by editing the inputs in the MAME GUI. On the original arcade machine, they simply mount the joystick rotated 45 degrees. So, you just need to know which way is UP for you, and use the diagonals to remap the inputs. This will create <CODE_AND> mappings because you will be using the diagonals, effectively mapping two inputs at once. This should not conflict with the virtual retropad like it does for doing <CODE_NOT>. In fact, you will probably see two sets of inputs for each as it should pickup the retropad and the raw keys at the same time. In practice, playing Qbert this way on a mapped joystick allows you to use the diagonals, but it always feels weird because you are using an 8-way stick without a restrictor plate and trying to hit the diagonals. It is not perfect.

caver01

@riverstorm said in Setting up a Ipac2:

Is it possible to boot directly to a console like Arcade?

I think you can set which emulator is first/default on the carousel, but you cannot boot directly to the games list.

rbaker

@riverstorm said in Setting up a Ipac2:

How do you disable the run command?

You can enable and disable different functions of the Runcommand Launch Menu. This is configured via RetroPie-Setup or via the runcommand configuration option in the RetroPie area of Emulation Station. The first option is Launchmenu. You just choose disable which means that a rom just launches.

Details here: https://github.com/RetroPie/RetroPie-Setup/wiki/Runcommand

Riverstorm

Nice thanks for the tips guys. I would like to give this a try at some point. I think after reading through I would definitely need some way to track ROM sets or at least build out a folder structure like arcade (mame2003), arcade (advmame), arcade (fba), etc. That way if I ever needed to start over I could reference the directory list when configuring. I have about 300 games across the 3 emulators.

I know this is a long shot but Caver I remember you pointing out some limitation on Arcade on configuration or something in a post a long, long time ago. Do you happen to remember what that was? Of all the things to remember I just remember you pointing out some limitation to be aware of or something along those lines.

Is there any documentation on Arcade or any posts you recommend reading. I see advmame has links under Arcade but mame2003 has folders. I think I can figure it out but is there any other folders to backup where Arcade specific config information would be stored?

caver01

@riverstorm said in Setting up a Ipac2:

I know this is a long shot but Caver I remember you pointing out some limitation on Arcade on configuration or something in a post a long, long time ago. Do you happen to remember what that was?

I do. It had to do with the single retroarch.cfg file in the configs/arcade folder. In the configs folders, you can have a retroarch.cfg per emulator folder, as you might already know, and one for "all". For example, the one in mame-libretro would cover the retroarch settings applied just to mame cores. That is already somewhat limiting because you cannot have a separate config for lr-mame2003 that is different than the one for lr-mame2000 because they both use the mame-libretro config folder. Now, apply that same limiation to the arcade folder and you see the potential problem. One retroarch.cfg file has to cover all libretro cores used. That means, if you map keys for lr-mame2003 differently than you do for lr-fbalpha, you only have one retroarch.cfg to work with. You might end up needing more per-rom config files.

Of course, you still have the ALL folder for your base/default, and retroarch combines them, but where they conflict, the config is superceded as you get more specific, ALL-->Cores-->Roms.

Anyway, that was the limitation. One cfg file for arcade. In practice, however, it has not been a big deal.

caver01

This was one reason why I am so passionate about keeping the SELECT key mapped. It has to work for both mame and FBA using the same retroarch.cfg file.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Setting up a Ipac2:

I do. It had to do with the single retroarch.cfg file in the configs/arcade folder.

Thanks Caver, that was it, good memory! :)

that is different than the one for lr-mame2000 because they both use the mame-libretro config folder.

Is lr-mame2000 lumped mame4all? When I go to the launch menu with ROMs placed in the mame4all folder I can choose between mame4all or lr-mame2000 but when using Arcade it lumps all lr-mame configs (i.e. - 2000, 2003, 2010, 2014 & 2016) to one folder being mame-libretro?

his was one reason why I am so passionate about keeping the SELECT key mapped. It has to work for both mame and FBA using the same retroarch.cfg file.

Yeah lr-fbalpha seems to be the only MAME Libretro core that doesn't accept raw input and relies solely on Select for credits.

caver01

@riverstorm said in Setting up a Ipac2:

Is lr-mame2000 lumped mame4all? When I go to the launch menu with ROMs placed in the mame4all folder I can choose between mame4all or lr-mame2000 but when using Arcade it lumps all lr-mame configs (i.e. - 2000, 2003, 2010, 2014 & 2016) to one folder being mame-libretro?

I believe lr-mame2000 is the better name for the libretro version of mame4all. It used to be lr-mame4all.

I think one reason why it is setup together is because lr-mame2000 and mame4all-pi are both built on the same mame code base and require the same romset.

Arcade combines all arcade emulators (except Daphne which is not really interchangeable with the others). The stand-alones like AdvanceMAME will use their own configs as always, but the libretro cores will share the same retroarch.cfg. Actually, they already shared the one in the all configs directory, but the emulator-specific config ends up coming from the arcade config folder and all libretro cores must share.

The benefit, even with this limitation, is that all arcade games (except laserdisc) are united under a single menu in ES. Before I started using it, I would show a friend the system, and they would be scrolling through the gamelist looking for their favorite, and I was like, "oh, that one is listed under the FBA emulator," or, "oh, that game is vector, so it is under AdvanceMAME," and they would ask, "what is a MAME?" That's when I knew that having multiple arcade choices in ES--especially multiple MAMEs to choose from--was really confusing the casual user. People would appreciate what I built more if they did not have to hunt for their games. The users don't understand why I would choose one emulator over another for a particular game. They also don't care, so the Arcade folder just cuts through all of that confusion.

Sure, I need a spreadsheet to keep track of what ROMs I have in there (what sets each one comes from) but it seems like the best option for me.

I might like to try to unify Arcade with Daphne at some point. I am not sure why that hasn't happened yet.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Setting up a Ipac2:

I think one reason why it is setup together is because lr-mame2000 and mame4all-pi are both built on the same mame code base and require the same romset.

Yeah they are the same ROM set 0.37b5. Sorry I might have not worded the question clearly. All lr-mame emulators (2000, 2003, 2010, 2014, 2016), advmame, mame4all, etc. share one retroarch.cfg the should be placed in the arcade folder?

Also just a quick question for advmame I see a folder under Arcade /home/pi/RetroPie/roms/arcade/advmame that only has file links that point to themselves such as the artwork link is /home/pi/RetroPie/roms/mame-advmame/artwork. Do I configure the options, samples, etc. under it's "home" folder in /opt/retropie/configs/mame-advmame as though it's standalone or create folders here in the directory?

Also for mame2003. This has actual folders under /home/pi/RetroPie/roms/arcade/mame2003 would I add the config files to these folders or to the native mame-libretro folder?

Lastly the same for mame4all I take it must be configured in it's home folder /opt/retropie/configs/mame-mame4all.

Sure, I need a spreadsheet to keep track of what ROMs I have in there (what sets each one comes from) but it seems like the best option for me.

I agree that sounds pretty handy. I was just trying to cut out the spreadsheet and maybe use the folder listing of files for what ROM belongs to what emulator and then maybe write a small batch files that copies all directories to the Arcade folder from a USB drive.

Basically using my directory of ROM files as my spreadsheet for reference. Like my FBA directory is pretty small so I could have one window open with the folder listing on one screen then on the other screen configure each ROM in RetroPie. I think it sorts alphabetically by name from gamelist.xml name so it would require skipping around the list of games.

Man o'live you can just go on and on in RetroPie. Hopefully I get some point where I spend more time playing than tweaking. :)

(except Daphne which is not really interchangeable with the others)

Yeah it sure would be a good fit for adding it under Arcade.

Riverstorm

I know the ROMs belong in one folder but I was referring to config files, like samples or in AdvMAME the advmame.rc modifications, mame2003 BIOS files, etc.

caver01

@riverstorm The advancemame config files stay where they are. It is not libretro, so the .rc file is still referenced in its existing location. That is convenient at least. The support folder locations for advancemame such as artwork and others are all dependent on the settings in the .rc, so you can leave them where they are, or point them to wherever you think is more convenient. For example, I have my samples in the BIOS area where I setup a folder structure for advmame. This is also where I dropped some files for MESS. Anyway, AdvanceMAME plays nice with the Arcade folder in that it keeps everything else AS-IS. This may be true of any standalone, non-libretro emulator.

For the libretro cores, if they generate support files next to the roms, these files/folders will appear in the arcade folder when you launch from there. So, stuff like GUI key mapping saved settings per rom, .nv files, and so on will get recreated. I would suggest letting that happen once, then move/copy your existing to retain highscores etc.. I think lr-mame2003 references the BIOS folder for some stuff (samples maybe? Artwork?) Anyway, that stuff does not change. FBA can use the BIOS folder too, which is nice. So your NeoGeo BIOS can sit there and won't need to be in the games list in Arcade. That is true even if you don't use Arcade.

Anyway, making the transition to Arcade is not that hard, and if you copy roms over instead of moving them, you can refine your setup without losing your existing emulator areas. You will have to pick a default, then go through runcommand for each game that deviates and set the right emulator, but it is worth it. Later, you can try other versions of emulators easily, provided the rom does not change, without having to move ROMs around to different folders. As long as an arcade emulator is installed, it will be available in runcommand under arcade. This is cheating a little, as your ROMs should obviously align with MAME set required, but many classics don't change from set to set.

Man o'live you can just go on and on in RetroPie.

No truer statement exists on this forum!

Riverstorm

@caver01 Thanks Caver for all the information. I knew you set a default then work you way through the rest by hand. Most are in mame2003 followed by AdvMAME, then FBA. I think I can get a good start on this now. Well soon-ish! ;)

I think I know this answer but just to verify. I have some duplicate ROMs that are just for testing lr-mame2000. I will need to leave them in the mame4all folder as you can't have the same ROM name from different sets in arcade correct?

It is good discussion. It is debate that will bring us to recommendations for people, possibly even enhanced documentation in the RetroPie Wiki.

I am off for the holiday weekend here soon but I do agree with this statement. I know I get a better understanding of how things work from these discussions, unique points of view to see challenges from different perspectives and as you said it might lead to improved recommendations. Also I guess like Andrew said "A quest for knowledge..." which rings a little true for me or at least sounds very sovereign! ;)

caver01

@riverstorm said in Setting up a Ipac2:

you can't have the same ROM name from different sets in arcade correct?

You can't have two files with the the same filename in any single location--arcade folder or elsewhere. The fact that MAME and FBA use romsets with filenames that don't change (but their contents might) is probably the biggest source of arcade emulation confusion there is. It can be very frustrating, especially for newcomers. It is also why I keep the spreadsheet. You can't tell by looking at a file which set it came from. You can test it against a known set to see if it is compatible, (like with CLRMAMEPRO), but keeping notes about a jumble of ROMs in the arcade folder is worth the effort.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Setting up a Ipac2:

You can't have two files with the the same filename in any single location--arcade folder or elsewhere.

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I had it straight and there wasn't some clever way to display/run two identically named sets in a list but with potentially different ROM files (i.e. - different MAME versions).

When I started using RetroPie it was more learning how to use it and not so much ROM management. The Raspberry Pi and RetroPie merged has been revolutionary for me in making retro gaming incredibly portable in any room or visiting family and friends. Shoot you can take it on a trip even if you're willing to use controllers. It renewed an old spark. I did follow PiPlay for a while but it seemed like RetroPie was evolving quicker.

I've used ClrMamePro for about 15 years or so and feel very strong in my ROM management. I have it down to a science mostly but I don't use Software Lists much. They can get a bit advanced if you don't use profiles. It's just repetition of use, reading and using it for years. Learning each option as you go. I remember the days of trying to manage ROM sets without tools or incomplete sets of just the games I wanted to run. I can't imagine not use some type of ROM management now.

I run them through ClrMamePro as non-merged, TorrentZip the set and finally zip the whole version. So I have in a folder:

MAME 0.36 Non-Merged (Torrent Zipped).zip (another project)
MAME 0.37b5 Non-Merged (Torrent Zipped).zip
MAME 0.78 ROMs Non-Merged (Torrent Zipped).zip
MAME 0.94 Non-Merged (Torrent Zipped).zip
MAME 0.106 Non-Merged (Torrent Zipped).zip
etc.

Then I just pull out the ROM set from the archive I need quick and easy. I use WinMerge if I need to compare to identically named sets for differences or compare folders of sets.

I think I can make a folder structure and searching it for knowing which set belongs to which version work pretty easy. The key is knowing that you can only have one version in the folder structure that will be merged into the arcade folder. If I find it in mame2003 on my USB drive then I know it's from 0.78. I suppose I could also pipe the directory to a file but I don't think I would need to go that far.

The initial setup seems like it will be slow as you start each game and reference a "list" for the emulator config.

I always keep the current set of MAME (split) which I think is 0.191, CHD's and rollback to be able to create any new sets as they are added to RetroPie.

Storage is at a high now I think somewhere between roughly 20 to 25 terabytes but about half of that is backup. So really around 12 terabytes of actual data. Always adding drives it seems.

Riverstorm

@caver01 said in Setting up a Ipac2:

This is cheating a little, as your ROMs should obviously align with MAME set required, but many classics don't change from set to set.

I wouldn't call it cheating at all! ;) I have 250+ games in mame4all and mame2003 folders. If I compare them as binary they are almost 100% identical directories. On top of that if you TorrentZip your sets they'll have the exact same hash and are 100% identical except for the half dozen or so not supported in mame4all.

kombat

I had to go through a bunch of the defaults and set them ="nul" in order to prevent them from overlapping the standard IPAC/MAME mapping above.

Where would I go about's setting defaults to nul? Is that in the menu (tab key) once inside a rom?

rbaker

@kombat You would be better starting your own thread with a specific question but the answer is no. Are you referring to TAB in MAME? that is how you can make changes but with regard to setting up the keyboard encode you need to read through https://retropie.org.uk/docs/RetroArch-Configuration/#hardcoded-configurations

Riverstorm

@kombat - If you're using mame2003 there's a version named mame2003-plus in the Experimental section of the RetroPie setup menu. It has options under Quick Menu/Options once in a game to completely ignore TAB inputs. It might save you from needing to 'nul' every input. It's basically the same core with around 130 additional games and some other improvements. It's Experimental but solid. You can report any issues on the Github page.

Input interface: retropad| mame_keyboard | simultaneous

kombat

@rbaker said in Setting up a Ipac2:

@kombat Are you referring to TAB in MAME? that is how you can make changes but with regard to setting up the keyboard encode you need to read through https://retropie.org.uk/docs/RetroArch-Configuration/#hardcoded-configurations

I'm good with my keyboard encode, my question was in regards to @caver01 setting defaults to null as I am having some similar (i think) issues where the emulator defaults are conflicting with my standard IPAC/MAME mapping (example my player 2 button 6 is triggering a fast-forward?). I am wondering where I can access those settings

rbaker

@kombat said in Setting up a Ipac2:

I am wondering where I can access those settings

By editing the file as shown in the link I posted. You need to access it via SSH.