PiZero compared to a Pi3
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When you look at most pocket sized handheld builds, most people use a PiZero for their projects simply due to its form factor.
Since i, at the moment, only have a Pi3, i wondered what the threshold of emulation capability of the PiZero is.
Basically, where do you draw the line in terms of games / systems the Zero can / can't handle ? -
@Einherjar I have experimented with my Zero for a couple of weeks now and have concluded that anything from PSX and above is a no go. I got good results with NES, SNES, Turbografx-16, Sega Master System, Sega Mega Drive & Mame4all but that's about it.
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Thanks a bunch for the quick reply !
Basically what i expected. But i guess its fair enough for a time killer on train rides. -
PiZero is basically a rpi1 refactored, so don't expect to play yoshi's island on snes, i don't recommend fbalpha on it either (you'll have speed issues with cps2, cps3, pgm, cave, psikyo, .... you'll be lucky if you can run cps1 and neogeo games at full speed)
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Well, that sounds like trimming down a Pi3 (Remove ports) would be a better move in the long run, even though its going to be a bit bulkier.
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Well I completed yoshis Island on the pi zero last week . Everything you said here is a lie.... Unless you don't own a pizero and are guessing. Everything you stated works fine ... I built a arcade unit around the pizero and trust me I don't waste money because I am really poor ... The fact is the pi one do not preform like a zero ... The zero runs laps around it
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@twd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raspberry_Pi#Pi_Zero
I didn't lie, wiki confirm pizero is a rpi1 refactored. Does it run at higher speed ? Yes.
Does a rpi1@1Ghz (same as pizero) ran the games i mentioned at full speed ? No.
Does a rpi1@1.1Ghz ran the games i mentioned at full speed ? No.
I don't own a pizero, but i owned a rpi1, and it ran at 1.1Ghz, and i wasn't able to play those games at full speed.
Did retroarch + cores from 2 years ago run slower than current retroarch + cores ? Not sure about snes, snes9x2002 (formerly pocketsnes) was full of compatibility issues 2 years ago (and anything above wouldn't run at full speed), perhaps they were fixed. About FBA, i'm pretty sure it doesn't run faster than 2 years ago, because i'm its maintainer, so i know its code is slowly moving from HLE to LLE. About retroarch, i don't know.
Let's say you are saying the truth about snes. The fact is that you are also saying you are able to play cps2, cps3, pgm, cave, psikyo, ... at full speed on a factory-overclocked rpi1, while some people with overclocked rpi2/3 (which have ram x2 + cpu x4 + higher frequency) are reporting speed issues with lots of those ? Cool story, but do you have anything to backup your sayings ? Because i don't see any reason to trust you. -
Hey people, please calm down.
I can confirm (because I own a Pi zero) that Metal Slug gives a good example of the possibilities of this device.- Metal Slug 1 can be run at good speed the first levels... The last levels.... Were you are on top of an submarine it ran real sluggish :)
- The SNES game Star Fox (for EU players aka Star Wing) can't be played at full speed in any case but it is playable if you are kind of masochistic and like headaches.
- I was able to play Yoshi's Island at good speed (much better than Star Fox/Star Wing) but I only played one or two levels... and on the intro screen as the Island starts to rotate there were remarkable lacks in speed... so I think it depends on the number of creatures in the scene and on the background graphics.
The truth may depend on the personal view of reality and on the expactations you set. Please respect each other and noone is a liar here.
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We are talking about full speed here, not about nearly full speed, nor about nearly full speed sometimes. Full speed means constant ~60 fps. So does it run at full speed or not ?
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@barbudreadmon Wow! You made my day!
Are you from outer space? An Alien? Or a kind of insect? Why do you need 60 fps?
Why you don't understand as I wrote:The truth may depend on the personal view of reality and on the expactations you set
Well if you expect 60 fps than sorry man ... please don't use the Raspberry for emulation because it can't fullfill your expactations for now for all provided systems.
I think x86 systems should fit ... go ahead with that. -
Uhm...i think that is highly dependent on what system we are talking about here...
If we're still talking about SNES games, than yes, anything below 60 (50 PAL) would be rather noticeable, with very few exceptions (Super FX intense games)
The games were rendered according to the standard monitor refresh rates at the time (50/60 htz)And yes, i was indeed talking about what system runs most (all) of its library in full speed to gauge the systems overall potential.
Since emulators are rather finicky, its hard to go by the raw hardware numbers. -
Do you realise that your commet made him make a choice to butcher his 35 pound board when he could have tried a £4 pi zero then if it don't work no drama back to orignal plan. The fact is all 16 bit systems work fine. May drop one or two frames in an intense sprite filled scene but that is it. Take neo geo for instance I own the orignal hardware and metal slug 1 plays the same slowdown in same parts.
Hard facts is you pulled your comment out of thin air instead of real world situations you do not own one so you are guessing , I own one and real hardware to compare I don't need you to trust me . It's fact go on YouTube many examples . Funny fact is most of them arcade systems you mentioned don't run at 50hz or 60hz some run funny rates like 58hz 59.9hz etc. plus most people scale up to 1080p but retro games can't scale properly as Power of 2 come into play. 720p actually scales properly . If I have to make a video of I dunno metal slug 3 last blade marvel vs capcom final fight yoshis Island running fine will you at least entertain the idea you may be wrong?
Sorry I shouldn't have used the word lie I should have realised nobody like being called a liar I didn't want to swear . My bad
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@twd Fact is i was never wrong, of course i think a game who run at 55+ fps is playable, sometimes below, but "playable" was never my point because it's totally subjective, that's why i warned @Einherjar it wouldn't run at full speed for those games, because that's the truth and has nothing to do with @cyperghost's "personal view of reality and on the expactations you set", hardware is hardware, i don't need to buy a pizero to know how a rpi1@1Ghz run those games, and i got called a liar for that...
Cost is barely relevant, board is never the priciest thing when we build a retrogaming system on raspberry, and you'll have issues finding a pizero at £4 outside of england, unlike rpi3 which is indeed around £35 in my homeland -
And btw, if i remember correctly, retroarch's refresh rate have nothing to do with game's original refresh rates, when a game don't run at ~60fps in retroarch, that means your system lacks power and the cpu is throttling.
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Do you realise you are basing this on retroarch ? you cannot judge the hardware on software. so you are still basing this on your prefrance for libretro stuff go get a pizero and then come back after you tried pifba gngeo etc I did say sorry and using the word liar but don't play the victim. And I offered to film my zero working and you ignored this. So a person who owns a pizero and real hardware and can compare side by side is wrong . Whilst you can only use theory and wiki links.
So yeah people can read thease post and make there own opinion I am done with you.
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@twd just FYI you are talking to an emulator developer, so I think he does know what he is on about.
Play nice.
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I think he does lib fba core or somthing right? If that's the case I don't use that as it don't run well (skips sound major slowdowns etc) I use pi fba and alls good. Maybe he need to look at his own code and optimise it. I am not a coder etc in fact I am dyslexic but even I learnt a bit of C# and built a few game's so I can appreciate the work that's involved. But here now I can boot any game he suggests pre disc era and play.
I don't want to argue with the guy I really don't but i am using a pizero and in the real world i cannot agree with the advice he gave a pi 3 will be butchered causing a lot more work and cost to achive a portable what a pizero can do in its tiny form factor for a pity full 5 bucks. I apologised for using the word liar that really wasn't my intention for how it was worded.
I will apologise agin for my tone I didn't mean to offend , just a friendly debate Back and forth in my eyes
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@barbudreadmon As I said postings before
Please respect each other and noone is a liar here.
I think you are old enough to not felt offended. I saw an excuse here - So take it easy.
But for the discussion Pi0 vs. Pi3:
The zero isn't the perfect choice for the all in one emulation - I agree with you.
But for most 16bit systems it runs fine and in most cases it fits the expatations. Annother question?
When should I use a Zero rather than a RPi3??
Only for handheld builds! Imho only here the Zero makes sense :)The Zero isn't as cheap as thought. You must enable sound manually or use a HDMI plug. You need a OTG cable. You may need a USB Wifi or USB LAN device.... then you may need a USB HUB... and voilá your 5$ device costs all in all about 15 to 20$ - with less performance. But it's a gold nugget for handhelds (some people here use SPI display below 20fps refresh and they are happy with)
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@twd So your solution to achieve full speed for those games on a rpi1@1Ghz is to use pifba. I suppose it's valid, even if i have serious doubts you'll run sh-2 games (= cp3 + some psikyo + some kaneko) at full speed with it (that's beyond doubts actually), the only difference between pifba and fbalpha-libretro, except the 6 years of developpement gap, is the m68k dynarec, which only affect m68k games (which is actually most of pifba game library). But that's a 500+ game emulator against a 4000+ game emulator (10000+ if i count non-arcade systems) and that's not the only differences : you'll have no shader, you'll have no dipswitch, i'm not sure pifba plays well with games that need a 90°/180° rotation either, and probably many other issues i'm not aware of (just a guess : altered beast is not running well on pifba ?). Those are things you should mention before saying fba is running at full speed on pizero.
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@twd said in PiZero compared to a Pi3:
I think he does lib fba core or somthing right? If that's the case I don't use that as it don't run well (skips sound major slowdowns etc) I use pi fba and alls good.
we've been talking about lr-fbalpha this whole time:
PiZero is basically a rpi1 refactored, so don't expect to play yoshi's island on snes, i don't recommend fbalpha on it either (you'll have speed issues with cps2, cps3, pgm, cave, psikyo, .... you'll be lucky if you can run cps1 and neogeo games at full speed)
pi-fba doesn't even run cps3.
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