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    Switching default NES emulator - Opinions wanted.

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Ideas and Development
    nesemulatordefault
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    • BuZzB
      BuZz administrators
      last edited by BuZz

      Am considering to switch to lr-quicknes on rpi0/rpi1 by default - lr-fceumm can run at full speed on rpi0/1 but does require overclocking.

      With default clock speed lr-quicknes uses just under 50% on my Raspberry Pi 1 with super mario - so would seem the better choice (It's faster than lr-nestopia also).

      The other thing I am considering is changing the default lr-fceumm palette - so I would like some feedback on that (Palettes can be switched in the core options).

      Some people have requested the default nes emulator is also switched to lr-nestopia from lr-fceumm (eg on rpi2/rpi3) so interested in hearing arguments for or against that too.

      To help us help you - please make sure you read the sticky topics before posting - https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first

      meleuM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • dankcushionsD
        dankcushions Global Moderator
        last edited by

        i hear that nestopia has better sound emulation.

        i need to try these palletes! i'd barely seen a nes in the wild (they never seemed to be that popular in the uk) so i have no idea about how games should look!

        DarksaviorD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
        • DarksaviorD
          Darksavior @dankcushions
          last edited by Darksavior

          @dankcushions The nes classic palette seems to be the closest to the real thing. Though, it's way too dull for me. I'm using the Unsaturated one and that's fine for me.

          @BuZz I still prefer fceumm. I haven't done any extensive testing but I tried Holy Diver in nestopia and it has some weird graphic bugs when walking.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • RionR
            Rion
            last edited by

            I second lr-quicknes on rpi0/rpi1.

            Im in not sure about lr-fceumm & lr-nestopia.

            I myself always use lr-nestopia because of the better sound emulation and accuracy.
            But i have not tested all of the Nes library and as @Darksavior mentioned there are some games that doesn't work as intended. But how many or if it's only the Pal release i can't say.

            I also know that Nestopia recently last year got some new pallets to just like lr-fceumm.

            NESCap and Unsaturated V7 (Final) Palletes
            nestopia/ 70f4705

            Add FBX's new Nostalgia and NES-Classic palettes

            FBNeo rom filtering
            Mame2003 Arcade Bezels
            Fba Arcade Bezels
            Fba NeoGeo Bezels

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • edmaul69E
              edmaul69
              last edited by edmaul69

              I like lr-nestopia better for sound and color. Plus it can play playchoice 10 mike tysons punchout and the vs system games. Both emus have issues with some of the vs games but nestopia can play most of them where fceumm loads most of them but as soon as you coin in and hit start you have 100% no controls. As far as on the pi zero nestopia has run just fine on the games i have played without overclocking but yes fceumm is slow as hell. I agree you should switch to quicknes as default based on performance though. Now im not sure what is the genesis default on the pi zero, but i know that genplus gx is super slow and picodrive runs a lot better. Toe jam and earl is a great test between the two. Runs great on picodrive. I know there are some games still that probably require overclocking but i forget which ones might.

              DarksaviorD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • DarksaviorD
                Darksavior @edmaul69
                last edited by

                @edmaul69 Color shouldn't matter since both emulators use different palettes by default and are free to choose another one.

                I tested a few more games, I didn't notice a difference. I did notice in Nestopia the audio produces static on the screeching sound in Mario 3 when you suddenly run in the opposite direction. Nestopia's audio was also louder for some reason..

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • Z
                  zulueffendi
                  last edited by

                  On my pi b+ :

                  Quicknes playable at full speed decent audio with minor frame dips no overclocking
                  Fceumm is unplayable even overclocked.
                  Nestopia is about 90% speed overclocked

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • BuZzB
                    BuZz administrators
                    last edited by

                    I will switch to quicknes on rpi0/1 - but I will leave fceumm for now I think for rpi2/3

                    I can get fullspeed from fceumm and Nestopia my pi-b with overclocking.

                    To help us help you - please make sure you read the sticky topics before posting - https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                    • A
                      Arcuza
                      last edited by

                      I would like to "contribute" to the community by periodically sending over (of course done automatically when I exit configuration) my configuration to a Retropie cloud service. I can then log onto that cloud service to check how much my config differs from others, and a rating system can also hint an optimal configuration.

                      From your side, you will get data of the most common configuration and so on...

                      As a start, please implement a configuration switcher just as you do with the theme switcher.

                      From there I can choose from a set of "popular" configurations.

                      Thank you for your awesome work!

                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • meleuM
                        meleu
                        last edited by meleu

                        I's a little off-topic but I would like to share this info: QuickNES has the best retroachievements compatibility for NES.

                        (I use my raspi1 as a "cheevos earning machine", then I liked this change :) )

                        • Useful topics
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                        • rpie-art tool
                        • achievements I made
                        BuZzB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                        • BuZzB
                          BuZz administrators @meleu
                          last edited by

                          @meleu Didn't know that - a good argument for it. Since I have made it the default for rpi0/1 now, it also migrated to main, so is easier to switch to.

                          To help us help you - please make sure you read the sticky topics before posting - https://retropie.org.uk/forum/topic/3/read-this-first

                          meleuM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • meleuM
                            meleu @BuZz
                            last edited by

                            @BuZz BTW, more info about RetroArch and RetroAchievements compatibility can be found here: https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/wiki/RetroAchievements

                            Cheers!

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                            R 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • R
                              robertybob @meleu
                              last edited by

                              @meleu I'm pretty sure I've said it before, but I think RetroPie is definitely missing a trick by not advertising this feature. I would like to bet that a lot of users, those that perhaps don't bother with the forum, have little or no idea what Retroachievements is or that you can earn 'achievements' playing some of your favourite retro games.

                              meleuM 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • meleuM
                                meleu @robertybob
                                last edited by

                                @robertybob I'm a big RetroAchievements enthusiast, but I have to admit that this feature isn't the most simple and stable one. Some facts:

                                • RetroAchievements webserver isn't that powerfull and network timeout is a common problem (specially on weekends).
                                • not every achievement is well done (many of them are buggy).
                                • the RetroArch "ecosystem" is rich (I mean complex :) ) and not every core has RetroAchievements support.

                                Then, although I really like this feature, I think that highlighting it can be counterproductive to RetroPie. People will come here to complain that many cheevos aren't working, RetroAchievements site isn't responding, etc. And this forum isn't the best place to report these problems...

                                That's why it's important to make very clear that RetroPie/Arch/Achievements are different projects. It's not very simple to the noobies, but it's important to make it clear.

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                                D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • D
                                  Dochartaigh @meleu
                                  last edited by

                                  You know what I want on the Pi Zero BuZz! (something that runs at 60 FPS non-overclocked...i.e. lr-quicknes).

                                  To the color palettes, do any of you guys have an original NES and a CRT TV to test it on? Colors look decent on all emulators to me - and this is coming from a Graphic Designer who deals with color every single day.

                                  The problem you see online (which is bitched about) in regards to color accuracy is totally flawed. There is NO way to get the same look on a LCD TV that you get on a CRT TV. Even setting up your LCD (with a Pi) and CRT (with an actual NES console) next to each other is a flawed comparison as your exact LCD TV is going to have a different color scheme than somebody elses LCD TV has. Same goes for your exact CRT TV as well (which by this point is at least 20 years old too you have to remember and not in new condition by any means) - that isn't going to look the same on another CRT TV. You can't simply plug in the NES console to both TV types and expect identical colors either (not to mention upscaling issues too). And don't believe the photo comparisons you see online either - it's impossible to get the camera to take the same picture with different lighting conditions due to the amount of light that comes off each TV type...

                                  Even the exact chipset your exact console has can change the color vs. somebody elses console made at a later date with a chip by a different manufacturer, different cables and connection types, the list just grows and grows (even sound - the Sega Genesis systems in the USA for example had like ~4 different audio chipsets with noticeable sound differences). Anyway, I can go on and on and on about the subtle differences in regards to color but I hope you see my point (which to put it simply: if the game looks good to you, it looks good to you, don't worry about 100% exact color matching because there's no standard to match it to so it will NEVER happen ;)

                                  RionR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                  • RionR
                                    Rion @Dochartaigh
                                    last edited by

                                    @Dochartaigh But then again people still try there hardest to get it to look like it "almost" did on CRT's

                                    http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

                                    FBNeo rom filtering
                                    Mame2003 Arcade Bezels
                                    Fba Arcade Bezels
                                    Fba NeoGeo Bezels

                                    D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • CapemanC
                                      Capeman
                                      last edited by Capeman

                                      I use Nestopia as my default for everything, FCEumm has this weird setting where it tries to cut off the overscan, but it results in some weird effects in certain games.

                                      Play castlevania 1 with FCEumm and see if you can get a high "core" and see the health of the "nemy"... since the left letters are all cut off.

                                      Vector Artist, Designer and Maker of Stuff: Laser Cut Atari / Pixel Theme Bartop

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • D
                                        Dochartaigh @Rion
                                        last edited by

                                        @Rion said in Switching default NES emulator - Opinions wanted.:

                                        @Dochartaigh But then again people still try there hardest to get it to look like it "almost" did on CRT's

                                        http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html

                                        I totally get it! And I don't know if that's your project or what, so I don't mean any disrespect, but that's pretty flawed as well. In the very first sentence he mentions a PVM monitor....who in their right mind as a 6-year old kid (or even a 30-year old kid back in 1986 ;) played on a multi-thousand dollar PVM monitor? Nobody that's who ;) Hell, a tiny --to us American consumers-- 20" PVM is still like $1,000 probably 30+ years later! People always want what they had "back in the day", and that is a JC Penny special TV for most of us!

                                        His PVM monitor is also going to look different than another PVM monitor (unless they were bought at the same exact time, from the same lot, fine-tuned at the factory right next to each other for identical color profiles, then were tested using an identical NES, same cables, on the same revision of the NES cartridge, were serviced by the same place at the same time over the years using parts ordered from the same supplier, at identical times, from the same parts lots, etc. etc. etc.)...again, you see where I'm going. It's GREAT to match close, but just not "identical" because that simply doesn't exist.

                                        mediamogulM RionR 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • mediamogulM
                                          mediamogul Global Moderator @Dochartaigh
                                          last edited by

                                          @Dochartaigh said in Switching default NES emulator - Opinions wanted.:

                                          It's GREAT to match close, but just not "identical" because that simply doesn't exist.

                                          This is very true, but then again, expecting 100% accuracy in any area of emulation will usually invite disappointment. Below is a nice reference to see just how much the color palettes can vary from the original hardware. As many people are aware, the Retron 5 is using lr-fceumm (somewhat illegally) with it's default color palette.

                                          In RetroArch, and by extension RetroPie, the color pallets can of course be altered in both lr-fceumm and lr-nestopia. General consensus seems to have "unsaturated-final" for lr-fceumm and "unsaturated-v7" for lr-nestopia being as close to the original NES color palette as currently possible. Both palettes are actually the same, just named differently between the cores for some reason.

                                          color

                                          RetroPie v4.5 • RPi3 Model B • 5.1V 2.5A PSU • 16GB SanDisk microSD • 512GB External Drive

                                          D 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • RionR
                                            Rion @Dochartaigh
                                            last edited by

                                            @Dochartaigh I understand completely what you mean. This is not my project but fun reading and to play around with.

                                            Here are some more links to more Palettes to try out. These are already included in the latest nestopia.

                                            NES Classic Palette

                                            NES "Hybrid" Palette

                                            FBNeo rom filtering
                                            Mame2003 Arcade Bezels
                                            Fba Arcade Bezels
                                            Fba NeoGeo Bezels

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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